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The Ore I Mine is Free


I noticed today that the price of Tritanium in Jita is just over 6 ISK a unit. Wow. When I started it was around two. Just in case I was having dreams of a past long remembered, I searched around and wandered upon Eve Market Data's price history graphs. With a few clicks I made it look as if I knew what I was doing.

The last price spike for Trit was Odyssey. That made sense because the material requirements were changing on a lot of ships. People were building now to save money and hopefully make money, later. It also somewhat explains the crash. There was a huge backlog of ships. Prices for many T1 hulls were depressed for quite a while.

I earned my first hundred million ISK mining my heart out in a poorly skilled retriever in Derelik. I never disliked mining. I quite enjoyed it. There was a time that I figured out how much ore I made per cycle. I did learn to do things that made more ISK and mining became a side project. I stopped it when ganking became a very popular thing. I just didn't want to lose a ship because of a gank. Plus, I was busy.

Now, I've come full circle. I am still busy but it is in a way that I can AFK mine. Instead of having that particular alt logged off I have her off on the corner, in a Skiff mining. I started a few weeks ago. I use the minerals to build various blueprints that I have on hand. It builds up nicely. I'll build a few hulls and feel good about myself. I enjoy it.

I know that I'm supposed to write how ashamed I am of mining and all that other stuff. I'm not. I like resource gathering. I have two accounts training into prospects an then those new low sec sites are mine. I've never understood why people attempt to convince me not to do it. I'd not be doing anything else with that alt or account. I'm not, not doing other things to mine. Mining is on top of all of those things so why shouldn't I do it?

Anyway, back to the topic. Trit may go back down. I am not sure that it will. With the reprocessing nerf racing towards us at full speed I expect to see the minerals go up. The above chart nicely shows the bump that mining gained when the drone minerals stopped dropping after the Inferno expansion.

Now with the reprocessing changes facing us and the industrial revamp with Crius the market is in major fluctuation. 

I decided to build myself the Machariel's I mentioned the other day. I am going to assume the boys will cheer as I start accumulating billion ISK losses because it means I am out and about. My not undocking has become a bit more of a joke than I wish for it to be. I need to work at correcting that some.

But over in my third screen...


The actual title is "Why I am Mining Again" but I picked that one to poke Locke in the eye after our chat the other day.

Comments

  1. The main adjustment to mineral prices was changed with the removal of some npc buy and sell orders. Because those were infinite, it placed a hard floor and ceiling on the valuation of a lot of low end minerals. Savvy players could simply buy up underpriced goods, and then refine them to be sold to the npcs. Or if the price of trit went too high, they could just buy shuttles and reprocess those.

    Newbies are steered away from mining for three reasons:

    1) Bots are better at it. The content is pretty much designed for robots.

    2) The SP translates to no other objective. SP for PVE is functional in the 10% chance that they'll do pvp later on.

    3) It doesn't scale. The ROI has a rapid logarithmic progression. Miners have to spend a lot of SP and money to get a very small increase, and afterwards there is only a flat trajectory. Contrarily, PVE contributes to standing, which contributes to market efficacy, which also has a logarithmic scale, but one that is slower and doesn't have a clear asymptote with additional monetary inputs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually, the main adjustments to minerals were to insurance payouts, which established the price floor, and the end of gun mining in the Dronelands with the removal of drone goo. That last is what really caused the prices to rise.

      Delete
    2. Those are excellent points. +1

      Delete
    3. Wrong
      Newbies are steered away from mining for three reasons:
      1) Bots are better at it. The content is pretty much designed for robots.

      2) The SP translates to no other objective. SP for PVE is functional in the 10% chance that they'll do pvp later on.

      3) It doesn't scale. The ROI has a rapid logarithmic progression. Miners have to spend a lot of SP and money to get a very small increase, and afterwards there is only a flat trajectory. Contrarily, PVE contributes to standing, which contributes to market efficacy, which also has a logarithmic scale, but one that is slower and doesn't have a clear asymptote with additional monetary inputs.


      A) Sugar aint a noob FFS

      1) Bots are against the EULA and ToS. I hope you do not mean they SHOULD be part of the game... do you??

      2) The skills DO NOT need to translate over to PvP, EVE is a SANDBOX. To argue otherwise is to argue for YOUR way of playing.

      3) It doesn't have to 'scale'... it is resource gathering.
      Running nothing but L4s, which I did for quite some time as a noob, doesn't scale either. The ISK (bounties+bonus+loot+salvage) never got better than the max that a mish could give. ANd Missions do not teach PvP fits, tactics or strategy so it did not translate either.

      You wanna see who has real power in EVE? I would give ANYTHING to see every single mining Bot shut down, then, all the players who are primarily miners, and there are a helluva alotta players who prefer creation over destruction no matter how your PvP addicted brain perceives mining and PvE, I would like to see them really get together and simply stop for a while... then when the market really crashes we'd see which came first, the passive peaceful PVE playing miner/industrialist or the raging aggressive PvPer who NEEDS the ships and mods the carebears build...

      PvE - mining & industry are 50% of this game, anyone who says differently has his head firmly up where the sun dunt shine. And anyone who doesn't LIKE that someone is mining, cause it's... eeew... does not understand or believe in the sandbox ideal.

      and Splatus my friend... oh please. These are not 'good points' they are the eternal rant of the PvPbear against any other form of gameplay in EVE... And do you really believe mining bots should be a n accepted and even supported method for industry to acquire it's ores? Really??

      Delete
  2. Actually the ore isn't free.

    Must we lecture you on opportunity cost? =)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. What about character skilled only in basic mining and industry?
      and/or
      2. What about people who can't actively play most of the time (alt-tabbing between Eve and other apps), so no possibility of running PvE for them?

      I guess they would not have any other "opportunity" to seize.

      Delete
    2. Can't make me :P. This account has nothing else to do at these times and my attention is to fractured to do other activitiies. If I do something else it goes away.

      The opportunity cost would be not using her during these moments.

      And free trit! Woo!

      Delete
    3. Sugar doesn't understand opportunity cost if she did she wouldn't keep making statements about her cult of reasonable prices and how it harms no one. When it's obvious that any marketing subsidized by other activity is market PVP.
      Don't get me wrong Market PVP is fine but I just wish she was more honest about it, at least I hope she's being dishonest I voted for her I'd hate to think she really doesn't understand..

      Delete
    4. I do understand opportunity cost. I've also discussed using TCS ask market PvP. I know I am hurting other people's margins. I am forcing prices by holding my own. I wrote about that regularly and my time with the CIMM in Solitude last fall was rediculious market PvP.

      I simply believe that those margins can be less. I did start TCS just because and with no knowledge of it being profitable and no care if it was. That is not a lacknof understanding that is not caring.

      TCS has become profitable and I have waved that stoubd in an effort to show people that they can make a market with low margins and reasonable profitability and improve the game time of random strangers while managing it easily.

      I could increase TCS prices to a more acceptable profit and do market PvP to both other players and the buyers and win the ISK on both sides.

      I don't want to. That's why I call it a cult.

      What part do you feel I'm not being honest about? I'm more than happy to try to clarify.

      Delete
    5. Kids,

      I’m confident Sugar understands opportunity cost. For us greedy merchant/industrialists I’m equally confident she’s fully aware she’s poking her thumb right in our eye. Finally, she brazenly proceeds with NO SHAME. Such scandal!

      I like that about her.

      DireNecessity

      Delete
    6. Of course she understands opportunity cost, I'm pretty sure most of us realize that.

      Not all merchants/industrialists are greedy price gougers either. You might be surprised just how many of us actually operate on reasonable prices too (or for the most part anyhow).

      Delete
    7. FFS you don't understand opportunity costs either. It applies only to options that are available for a given constraint set.

      Sugar has said that this alt would be doing nothing or mining. While this alt could potentially make more ISK doing other EVE activities, it cannot due to the amount of attention it would require. Mining is the best ISK making activity this alt can perform. Therefore, by mining, she is maximizing her available opportunity cost.

      Delete
    8. I hope you don't have anything to do with business or financing in RL Knug because if you were in one of my classes I'd probably fail you for your lack of understanding of the "given constraint set" in the given example.

      Delete
  3. AFK mining ..... Perhaps as a CSM member that appears to want to make pve activities better you should not advocate the most broken pve activity in the game?
    Just an observation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Either a troll or fucking retarded. I'm going with option #3: you're a fucking retarded troll.

      Delete
    2. I'm actually not afk. I have two flights of drones. One to pop rsts and one to salvage. I have a mobile tractor unit. I have to switch rocks every cycle and I'm in a Skiff so I have 15k M3 of ore before I have to go. Then I scoop tractor unit, loot, recall drones and dump ore.

      No idea what's AFK.

      Delete
    3. @ Anonymous,

      Sugar doesn’t write with precision. Rather she writes at speed. Sadly it allows trolls like you to pick a sentence out of context, “I am still busy but it is in a way that I can AFK mine” and run with it. You’re aware that you’re saying one isn’t allowed to partake in a far from perfect style of game play simply because it’s far from perfect, yes? By that measure nothing’s left. Why do you play Eve at all Anonymous when every piece you touch is far from perfect? You’re hypocrisy is awe inspiring.

      Now, turning my ire at Sugar . . . You don’t write with precision. Rather you write at speed. It both delights and aggravates me at the same time. Wonderful first drafts pass before my eyes – yah! Unpolished first drafts pass before my eyes – oy vey! Look, you’re free to write as you please but you have to own it. When you say you’re AFK mining, and you did, don’t suddenly ignore your own text and claim you’re not AFK mining.

      DireNecessity

      Delete
    4. And that shows that I use labels without thinking about them. I might not have caught that ever Dire. I'm using AFK because that's a label I have in my mind. I'm there but the attention is split. For some that's still AFK or away from screen.

      I also think this is about the want to make mining more interactive and there for better as well as scolding me.

      Delete
    5. What is terrible about an in-game activity that allows you to focus on something else? When I was an abject newbie I spent hours reading the EVE University wiki to the hum of my Navitas' mining lasers. I am fine with the option of more demanding, but also more rewarding, mining minigames, but I see no particular issue with keeping the baseline game. Not everything has to get the blood pumping.

      As for high sec mining bots, given that they don't make that much money for the person running them. and given the people who tend to run them, I suspect that if it were easier for nullsec line members to raise money for doctrine ships the number of bot miners in The Forge would drop overnight, and ditto the number of bot missioners. That would leave you with the people who bot anoms, and the occasional cowboy who runs a mining bot in a wormhole, but that would be a significant improvement.

      The most effective way to get rid of casual bots is to take away the (dis-)incentives that lead to their being deployed in the first place. The hardcore botters are a different problem. CCP has the tools to catch the careless ones, but there was recently a loud hue and cry about the possibility that CCP could have the tools to catch the careful ones (by taking narrowly, technically out-of-game communication into account as in-game action).

      Delete
  4. Why Skiff? A Retriever with a DCII and the new hull rigs doesn't worth ganking and has a much larger ore hold

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because you live in s world were people gank for cost analysis. No one else does. You advocated ganking and then used more accounts to gank them anyway.

      I'm in a system where a retriever or mackinaw will die. Period.

      Delete
    2. If you have time, do you mind to elaborate? It's not obvious to me why, in low-sec, you wouldn't die in a skiff?

      Is it just to much a hassle to kill, or why may it live at the end, but a Retriever won't? I'am aware that a Skiff has a magnitude more tank, but either you are tackled and die, or you are not, aren't you?

      Delete
    3. I'm not in low.

      Once I get my propsect then I will be in low.

      Delete
    4. Not in low... Assuming you're somewhere in Molden Heath that doesn't leave a whole lot of systems you could be in.

      Delete
    5. Isk takes 0 m3 to transfer. As for MH, there's a fair number of highsec systems and a nearly complete island in the middle of it. And then there's all the accessible space around within Jump Freighter range. Good luck finding said skiff... and best speed on getting the prospects out there. I'm loving mine and about to hit expedition frigate V to narrow the gap with the barges even more. Can't wait til Crius also makes this a fine Compressed Ore blockade runner as well. :-)

      - Serinas Setzuni

      Delete
    6. I suspect she "AFK" mines in roughly the same way my alt "AFK" belt rats while I'm PVPing on my main. I assure you I'm literally at the keyboard, but a significant degree less of my attention is on that particular activity.
      I'd describe any activity that I wouldn't dock up from if I were to answer the door or run the the restroom "AFK." Attention to spare, that's all.

      The flaw, in my opinion, is that in the case of mining and anom running with drone boats, is that paying 100% attention doesn't convey any advantage over minimal attention. If there was some reward for being as mentally engaged with mining as I'd be in a frigate 1v1, I think the profession would gain considerably more respect.

      Delete

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