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Uncertain Depth

I wrote a little, silly post to amuse myself about a new module I was proposing called the milkshake. Now, there was nothing serious about my post or my thoughts. I was being ridiculous. However, Altaen said that he'd love such a module. One where it was activated and the player was turned into a beacon that anyone could warp to.

I was a bit surprised. One of the things I like about low sec is the unpredictable nature of the hunt. I actually like that you may not get anything or you may bite off more then you can chew. You never know. It is one reason that I've wondered if I don't 'see' PvP correctly. I am fine with hunting for PvP and not receiving PvP because I enjoy the entire action from wandering onto coms to fleeting up with the boys and working together to find and hunt things.

I'm deeply suspicious that I'm very alone with this. I've often been frustrated when people get irritated that PvP is to much work. My opinion has always been that no one is entitled to PvP. After all, we are players hunting other players. Those hunted are ether hunting or avoiding. The entire exchange is about people interacting with other people with all of the variables involved. I like that and I accept that some days that means I won't get what I want.

So, when Altaen said he'd love that beacon ability two things came to mind.

The first was: Is this what people want? A simpler way to PvP in all places? I ask not as a criticism but out of curiosity. It is not what I want. But, I know there are grumblings for easier access to instant PvP. I know that my corpmates have a tremendous appetite for PvP. I'll get tired and want to go off and do other things while they are still out looking for things to fight with. It is always more and never less.

The second was: What happened to the sun and belts? These are easily warp to things. Of course the pilot has to be found via dscan but why don't we use them more? Or use them anymore? I know that someone will tell me how they or someone else is at the sun or a belt all the time. It is still a warpable beacon.

A module however screams come directly to me I'm here and wanting action. I don't think that it is particularly healthy.

I very much like Eve the virtual world. I like the universe where the player lives and has to go out and make what they want to happen, happen. I enjoy the unpredictability of it even when it is inconvenient. I get stressed warping my jump freighter to a high sec gate and taking down a tower is high intensity experience as I'm just waiting for someone to decloak and do to me what I have helped do to others in the same situations before. It is the same reason that I am focused on tanking my freighters. I know what I  have helped to do to others in that same situation I put myself in.

I've never considered myself a role player but in some wys I am very settled into the world concept of Eve. It may be why I have avoided many preplanned events. I enjoy the unknown future more than the known one. It may also be a matter of what is in a game and what are we here to do in it. I've never been a min/maxer. I wander in, I play my heart out and focus on enjoying myself. I never worry about optimal or best. It may be why I will never be a very good Eve player.

I've always fought pretty aggressively against arenas for the sake of arenas. I've never found them interesting. While this is not an arena it is a gateway idea. I think that immediate and easy PvP will amuse some. I don't think it is a long term solution. It is too shallow. While the fun of fighting may happen and the reward of winning and the risk of loss may happen, removing all the other elements also strips away its depth.

Or I may be absolutely wrong.


  1. Different people want different things from EVE. Living in wormholes I'm frequently frustrated when people come to my corp and expect instant anything without putting in any effort. Admittedly the effect is amplified in wormhole space but the same effect exists in the rest of New Eden. The popularity of RvB highlights this.

    And it is also RvB which illustrates where CCP expect the 'instant on' PvP to come from - the players. Unfortunately people don't necessarily want to join a new corp just because they want a weekend of meaningless violence. As much as I too dislike the artificiality of arenas, in this context they just maybe have a valid reason to exist.

    1. I like RvB a lot because it is a player made environment to get that particular type of action. People work to make it and keep it what it is even if it does give very close to push button PvP. I think that is a fantastic use of the game to create something but very different from a game mechanic.

  2. Bring back the low-sec 2/10 plexes

    1. I've been told no many times :P

    2. Hey Sug, they should bring back the 2/10 plexes...

    3. Whats a 2/10 plex?
      What, I give you 2 PLEX, and get 10 back? SCAM ALERT SCAM ALERT!!!

    4. The 2/10 PLEX they ask for are the old static DED complexes that used to be scattered across the game. CCP removed htem in Retribution and it had a side effect of nerfing small ship PvP outside of faction warfare in low sec.

      Groups had grown up around these complexes and frigate PvP flourished in and around them. It was an entire sub culture of low sec that some people knew nothing about.

      The complexes were removed due to farming. This is part of the push to get them moved into the exploration system at the very least. Still, many who started their careers fighting in them and developed their social groups around them deeply miss them and the gameplay that they brought to low sec.

  3. If the module got made, I would to put my wager on "less than a day" for people using them as gank bait.

    "No, really, just you and me. Over there. Just our battleships. Really."

  4. Module? A deployable structure would be better. Simply jettison your Combat Buzzer(™) and then fight off the hordes of unwashed.

    1. Oh now we are slapping trade marks on things? :P

    2. My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
      And they're like, it's better than yours
      Damn right, it's better than your's
      I could teach you but I have to charge

  5. Light a cyno somewhere in a reasonably populated system with an alt.

    On the other hand it probably won't be the engagement you want, but it will be an engagement.

  6. I stopped doing FW missions because the game spawns a nice milkshake beacon for everyone to warp to. I couldn't deal with the mission rats and the player pirates/militia coming to get me.

  7. How about this:

    Guristas Hacked ESS
    - Same anchoring rules as a regular ESS
    - Same access range and timer (maybe a slightly longer timer for taking out the Tags)
    - no bubble, no "spacetype" restrictions
    - anchoring and accessing gives suspect-status
    - no LP bonus or other shenanigans
    - You can put ISK into it which get converted into empire-Isk-tags
    - It is warpable systemwide from the overview and shows with the amount of ISK inside "Hacked ESS (200mil)"

    Sure it will be used as a trap, but you have to put up some iskies to sweeten the bait and there are always bigger fish. Who like to eat fishermen.
    Yep I used Guristas because they seem in at the moment.

  8. The first was: Is this what people want? A simpler way to PvP in all places? I ask not as a criticism but out of curiosity. It is not what I want. But, I know there are grumblings for easier access to instant PvP. I know that my corpmates have a tremendous appetite for PvP. I'll get tired and want to go off and do other things while they are still out looking for things to fight with. It is always more and never less.

    You hit the nail on the head here… …no one is entitled to PvP. After all, we are players hunting other players. Those hunted are ether hunting or avoiding.

    That is, if the PvP you are talking about is non-consensual PvP… and by this I don’t mean a gank, I mean when one group says, “No, we’re not gonna fight them, we’re outgunned.” etc., etc.

    I love your, “No one is entitled to PvP”… but even more so, “No one is entitled to WIN at PvP.” Everyone wants to win. Everyone wants a good fight and some want a good close fight… but they still want one that they ‘will’ eventually win. Very few want to DIAF needlessly. The ships n shit in EVE do have a cost and ‘loss is real’ etc. etc. so most do want to engage, but they want to do so on their terms and when they feel they have the upper hand… more firepower, better tackle, etc. I ask you, do your boys dive into fights they ‘know’ they will lose? if so, how often? Or… do they too prefer the GF that they believe they can win?

    I know they guys I fly with do. Oh we do try and push it… take fights we feel are a might too close to call, but overall, Sov works very hard to find us targets we have a better than even chance of taking down with all ‘known’ variables accounted for and unknowns considered… We went on a lowsec roam Fri night… got 2 very nice kills, Eos and an Astarte to the loss of a Blackbird and x2 Vexors (and one of the Vexs was jumped at a station, not in either fight). Last night Sov got jumped while scouting a K162, lost a Cheetah n POD… then they brought the fight into our hole and we got a Proteus and a Prophesy with no more losses.

    Like you THIS is the PvP I want… the real, as it just happens PvP. The hunt, the chase, the time spent in these pursuits is worthwhile and almost as much fun as the fights to me. I am a hunter IRL… and I can tell you it is the same there. You spend days of hours in the woods and on the water for every deer and duck you bring home to the plate. And it is not about the kill, it is about the hunt. If your boys just wanna shoot things allatime, well, that aint PvP to me… that’s an areana… a thunderdome… Tell em to reconsider how they look at the time spent on the hunt, the comraderie, the shared experience… and eventually, they’ll get their PvP high too…

    All I can say is, for me… the high is higher the more time and effort it takes to get it. If PvP was free, it would be worth exactly what you paid for it. No one is entitled to PvP… ya gotta work for it.

    As for the "Warp to me!" Module... call it what, a 'Siren T1', produces a GirlyScream that can be heard allover the system?... uh, we already have that... it's called a Cyno... and you can always just use Fleet, right?

  9. Most 'writers' don't want to be writers, they want to be authors. (They don't to write, they want the result of having written something.), likewise some people don't want to hunt, they want to fight.


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