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Hi there

I pondered going a bit longer without writing here. I've been thinking for the last few weeks. I've hopped on, checked mail, talked to people, but mostly, Eve's puttering along towards Fanfest.

In the background, I've been fleshing out my time on the CSM. My then and my now are so far apart from each other it is rather staggering. I have wistful thoughts about my pre-CSM life. Before I knew to much and flew to close to the sun.

I said before that I stopped writing out of anger. I felt that if I kept a positive face to the public while I was raging inside, I was being false. I tried for a more neutral and honest tone but without wild, emotional aspects. I still, in the end felt fake. I directed that energy to solving the problem and I feel that did happen.

However, along the way more problems cropped up. I realized then, around the end of February that I was to deeply disappointed in some decisions that were made to present any type of face.

One thing I have struggled with has been how much to share. Do I share the anger that I often feel? It isn't productive. Rages and rants and tantrums don't get work done.

Would people even care? A lot of the election process for CSM10 left me shaken when it came to how much people wanted to know about what was going on and what motivated me. Did people want to know that I could barely control my rage when interacting with someone or did they just want results? Did they want to know the 'drama' that was happening or would they just laugh at me again and write about how they think the CSM is ridiculous and a high school council.

I also realized that I was sometimes trapped by all that ridicule and scorn. It got harder and harder to read it and stay productive. I kept slogging along but it was always there. In many ways, I was ashamed that I was so weak to be bothered by it. How often have I been told to ignore people, not to listen, or tell other's that they were stupid and their opinions did not count? Instead, I was dragged down by those opinions until I couldn't move anymore.

Basically, I realized I was not confident to share why I was upset about things anymore. I was so very tired of being laughed at and mocked for caring and having emotions. I understand that it is a popular pastime on the internet but I still don't understand it. I often wonder what is so flawed about me that causes me to care?

I've been rather stuck on these questions. Around and around I've gone for weeks now. Am I strange? Is this normal? Is this what happens in these types of positions? As it is ending I very much want to understand my CSM term and the tattered pieces that are left over from it.

One of the interesting things that happened during the campaign season for CSM11 was the handful of candidates that I talked to all, except for one that I never synced up with for a coms chat, told me that the stuff I brought forward wasn't going to be a problem. I kept getting my concerns brushed off and I really wondered what I saw in this that other's didn't.

Maybe I've made more of it then I should have. Maybe I should have talked more. Ranted more. Called people out to the floor. Gotten into fights with them. Maybe I should have shared more, pushed the bonds of my relationship with CCP more. Maybe I wouldn't feel like this now if I hadn't tried to stay in balance so long.

Things changed a lot along the way. I don't know like I used to. I can't take back the things that changed everything.


  1. For your own mental health, I got to say you are to invested in this game.
    Go ahead and install something else, perhaps something you bought during
    a steam sale, but please think about your own game fun now not those of others.

    Regards, a Freelancer

    ps: for a mmorpg I like to some opposites to eve like Guild Wars 2 :)

  2. Hey Sugar Kyle

    I feel like we misunderstood each other when we spoke. I did not mean to say that the problems you experienced would not be an issue with me. I was just trying to convey that I'm not dissuaded by them because I still think it's a fight worth fighting. Hope dies last I guess and maybe if I should have the privilege or the curse of serving I'll feel diffidently.

    Anyway, thank you for taking time to share your thoughts. I always welcome constructive criticism, regardless of the flavor.

  3. I didn't brush off your concerns or considered your knowledge invalid. This is why I boycotted the elections instead of running. This is why I'm now giving away my stuff and quit when Citadels hit.

  4. Its quite simple.
    Either you find EVE and all its cancerous childish worthless players fun. Or you do not and move onto something that makes you happy.

    Don't waste your time on things that don't make you happy.

    1. Cancerous childish worthless players, heh. You obviously never played EVE or have a very narrow and jaded experience of it. Eve has some the most caring, mature and valuable people that I've seen in any online community.

    2. Sorry I suppose a clarification is needed ->

      Not all players are the aforementioned type. Myself included there are some really nice people, such as the person who's blog this is. However a large portion of EVE is just a bunch of hooting dick holes who are in desperate need of a good old slap.

      In a game such as this however where no actions have lasting consequences and anyone can be a dick and get away with it you will however have to put up with the aforementioned hooters more than the wonderful sensitive people. Hence my generalization.

    3. To be honest, I have to agree with Joshua that there is a very large element of the Eve Community that has social interaction issues. And while it is not a new phenomenon, when Eve was played by mainly adults who gamed to conquer instead of tear farm, it was a much better game. Bigoted speech and sexism should NOT be tolerated but it is, which is why I quit long ago.

      Eve Online. The best game to read about and never play.

    4. I'll still say that it's more of a vocal minority or highly visible groups. I have interacted with thousands of players from all walks of EVE over the last decade and I can probably count on my hand the amount of times I had encountered such groups or players.

    5. Josh & Anon... you have the wrong of it as many do.

      Yes there are assholes in EVE, but they are by far the minority, a tiny, yet as it always is in these cases, highly and disproportionately vocal minority. They are the one bad apple that spoils the bunch.

      Why? Because being a good person, being an honorable person, being a decent person is also to be mainly a calm evenly balanced person both in reason and emotion... and being an asshole is to be quite the opposite... highly emotional and almost always unbalanced, or at least seemingly so... just sadly, they seem to derive their fun from hurting others, causing grief and stirring the pot...

      Assholes want to make the world burn for no other reasons than just to watch it burn. But they are NOT the majority... oh my, imagine just how bad it would be if they were.

      I do not know how to help you Sugar... and I do so wish I could. You are one of the good one's who found in herself the passion to get up and DO something... and now, like Ripard Teg... you have paid the price all decent people pay when faced with raw passionate hate cloaked in 'reasonableness'...

      It is a shame of our species that hatred can drive us so much farther than calm logic and reason can stand.

    6. Again, I respectfully disagree with you. I have spent countless hours, days, weeks and years trying to make an impact in our community to change the level of toxicity we as a group are known for. And at every turn, I and those that who wore their Flame Suits and White Knight Armor of Change proudly were talked over, banned, backstabbed, hunted mercilessly and driven heartbroken, from the game. Like the Moderate Muslim around the world, the Eve community kept quiet and let it happen out of the fear they would be next.

      What is entirely confusing is, when someone needs help, they are quick to donate and call attention to themselves to show how much of a 'good person' they are, and we forgive their transgressions for one more day.

      Its funny when we call someone like Erotica or Stunt Flores our hero and allow someone like Sugar to be crucified and driven away. So no, it is not a minority when we do not act against and remain silent ... you have just cause it to become the majority.

      Eve Online. The best game to read about and never play.

    7. irt Anon 12:49

      Erotica was removed from Eve. CCP allowed a forum thread the remain open to facilitate discussion. From statics generated by Chribba, almost 800 players spoke out against the whole Bonus Room episode, and a mere 45 repeatedly posted (some as high as a 20 count) in support. That should provide a reasonable snap-shot of the Eve community's view of Erotica1. It should tell you that it is indeed a vocal minority.

      I would direct you to the statistics provided by CCP Quant from the 2015 Fanfest. 25% of Eve players are traditionalist. Which Quant also labelled as "carebear". These players are not involved in forums or the meta. They have no idea about CSM or player meets. And certainly not contributing the public and toxic face that Eve seems to present.

      And finally I would point to the efforts of "the best of us" and "broadcast for reps" as player/community groups which go against the grain of "toxic community" which is casually applied when these sort of conversations arise.

    8. Hey All

      I suppose it could be that most of the EVE players are not toxic however I have not seen it this way in my years of playing. As someone who plays for a small corp in the bastion whenever I have interacted with Goonswarm I have found their members to be crass and childish. However as you said it could be just a few bad apples.

      If it is then they are the kind of bad apples that get a whole cart of apples sent to the dump because of the smell. So I still feel as if its effecting everyone.

    9. That's a really good analogy lol. That explains your views though. Stay away from Goons, Test and other huge bodies as they tend to attract the more immature instant gratification people seeking handouts. Try flying with some smaller groups which make up the majority of EVE.

  5. Sugar,

    Having never made a commitment to a gaming community anywhere near your two year CSM stint, I have no experience on which to develop sage advice. That said, should you find my presence helpful as you process the consequences of that decision know that I remain an interested participant. Proceed as you see fit: publicly via your blog as you often have, privately via some other avenue. Both. Neither.

    We humans really have little choice but engagement when it comes to the results of our choices. It’s wonderful curse.

    And many thanks for the puppy update (via your other blog) a short time back. I couldn’t help but think of a Caladri Heron/Buzzard upon seeing his upright ears. (I play this game too much! :)


  6. Thanks again for everything you have done for the EVE community.

    - Than

  7. Sugar, you have received high marks from some quarters *because* you didn't rage and have attempted to take high roads, and stay professional in the midst of chaos.

    That pent up emotion has to find vent somewhere. Some people try to decompress with physical activity away from the source, time off, vacations. I think you are attempting to write it out of your system, and that's cool.

    Your summit preparation, the ever expanding notebook of issues and research. Wow. It has been an thankless job at times.

    Thank you.

  8. I don't know about anyone else, but everything I ever suggested when we've talked was purely out of a genuine concern for you and an interest in trying to help you approach a balance point that may be difficult for you to see from where you sit vs from where I sit. But the reality is, you can probably only truly find that point after you become disconnected from your CSM experience through the passage of a considerable amount of time. It is so hard to let anger and disappointment go, but eventually when nothing is feeding it day after day, it will fade. Or so my experience suggests.

    The one takeaway from all this is to be proud of the effort you put forth on behalf of players. You stayed true to that through some very tough CSM times. Thanks for all your hard work...and to hell with anyone who thinks you deserve ridicule or who dismisses your feelings about your CSM experience. They have no damn idea what they are talking about.

  9. First, thank you Sugar.

    Second. You aren't crazy, you've just actually done the CSM thing and the people you're talking to haven't. Of course it won't be a problem, they're only campaigning. They haven't hit reality. From blogs, to interviews, to just chatting with former CSM members who quit. They've all seemed to come off with some of the sentiment you are now. Ask the candidates again after a year in the job.

    For two years you've carried two jobs; your normal one, and the CSM. Which I really don't think the peanut gallery tossing criticism truly appreciates when they bring up the CSM and the stresses it's under. On top of that you wrote here to tell us about what was going on. You didn't have to, you did it on your own and you never took the conversation to the gutter. At the end of the term, I respect you a lot more than I do other members who did dish the dirt.

  10. Hi,

    just wanted to say thanks a lot for your hard CSM work.

    Stay strong and hopefully we may read you again one day.

  11. Sugar,

    You did us all proud. It breaks my heart that you had to pay such a steep price to do that.

    That anger is only going to hurt you, so I'd suggest venting it. Write an absolutely blistering account of your grievances with a pen on paper. Unload everything. Name names. Be completely subjective and unfair. Then, when you're done, burn it.

    That's worked for me, anyway.

    This isn't to say that you don't have good reasons for the rage, just that at the levels you're describing any rage is poisonous to you. It may be easier to address the issues generating the rage after you vent it.

    Regardless, Sugar CSM best CSM.

  12. You mind find this interesting:

  13. Sugar - please let yourself off the hook. You are being far too hard on yourself. You did a wonderful job on the CSM, and you represented the players' interests very well. I can understand how working on the CSM is a frustrating experience. Many people who are passionate about EVE have very strong opinions and personal agendas, and I can't see how this could not lead to conflict on the CSM. You should congratulate yourself for managing that very maturely, and for keeping the interests of the players at the forefront. Thank you for your good service - you will be missed from the CSM, I am sure.

  14. I was afraid you might feel this way by the end of your second year. The CSM seems geared to grind up the most passionate players in the game.

    From the outside looking in, you done good. Just finish the job, then once the new council is up and running, take a break from thinking about running the universe for a couple of weeks. Once to feel fresh, then think of the positive things you did. You probably won't be able to share a lot of that due to the NDA, but that's okay. The important thing is to take something positive out of this whole experience. For some reason, I think you'll wind up with a long list.

  15. Don't beat yourself up over this, Sugar. You can't change that EVE is filled with shitty people, or that CCP is like a parody of a developer. There are some good people, that has to be enough. Just shrug, roll your eyes and move on.

  16. Sugar you are the last person who should be beating themselves up over the last CSM run, you did nothing wrong and everything right. I honestly and sincerely wish every CSM member was as dedicated and level headed as you are.

    I would also agree with people saying you need to express the anger you're feeling somewhere, even if its just in a place you never show to anyone else.

  17. The first time I reached this level of anger towards the game, it's players and CCP, I took a long vacation from the game. I would occasionally look at things like Dotlan, Evenews24/TMC/Reddit and the patch notes to keep up. I played other more relaxing games. I knew I'd be back eventually.

    Being on the second such break from the game now, it's getting easier and easier to see what elements were causing this and 'how to be happier' if I ever did return again. Not that I plan on it anytime soon. That new ability to melt character's skills down to inject into another certainly makes me consider rolling a brand new character and feeding it all of my old characters skill points though...

    I'm not suggesting such a vacation might be needed for you now after your terms as CSM are over, but maybe what you really need is a vacation from the negative sources that have hounded you through the last two years. Soon at least, they won't have as much reason to follow you around anymore, right?

    For what it's worth, I felt that you have been one of the best CSM representatives ever, if not number one. Even when I got odd stares and arguments in your channel, I still felt like you had at least listened, which was far more than a lot of the others had done for my votes. For that, I give my thanks.

  18. Don't change yourself to try to appease anyone else. I found it strange when you stopped writing because I was so used to you sharing your thoughts, even pre-CSM. If writing was your outlet for expressing your thoughts, joys and grievances, then stopping writing cut you off of that.

    It's possible that over the course of the past two years you moved away from putting your real thoughts on paper (so to speak) and moved towards writing things that you thought people wanted to read from you. I think it's possible that trying to play the good person on every front has worn you down because you haven't given yourself the opportunity to express how you're truly feeling.

    My thoughts are that you should do what you want to do (in game and out), write about what you want to write and let go a little bit. The people who bother to come to this blog should respect your opinions, even if they disagree with them. I know I will. Thanks for all you've done, you've been a fantastic CSM representative.


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