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Familiarity and Rememberence

On April 7th, 2013 I wrote this blog post and never published it:
Kittens was collecting corpses on a gate the other day and bantering with LR. LR pops corpses because they show up in his overview. Kittens collects corpses and feels that LR should scoop the corpses and deliver them to him instead of destroying them. It was a random discussion but it led to LR telling kittens that his job wasn't to collect corpses but to put kill on the killboard. That was his primary focus as a member of THC2.
I interjected at that point. Often times, with conversations like that, I try not to say anything. Often, I fail. But if the primary purpose in THC2 is to put kills on the killboard I completely, and totally fail at that. LR was kind enough to give me an exception clause for the other things that I do and Diz stepped up to say that as long as people are having fun things are successful.
However, I clung to that exception clause because I do not like it. I do not have a particular desire to be a special snowflake that people make special rules to accommodate. Yet, THC2 has never been truely defined as I've understood it. It is a PvP corporation that lives in low sec with members that run around and do things. There is no greater focus but enjoying the game with people and good company.
Therefore, whenever someone tells me that it is defined in one way or another, I become uncomfortable. The closest I have ever come to leaving was when I was told that when I applied I agreed to a list of things that had never been discussed. It was unimportant things and the entire argument started over my not wanting to go to the test server to PvP practice against corporation mates. I was never asked my reason for not wanting to enter into that situation and I was pissed off enough that I never offered it up.
The simple reason I do not do 1v1s or spar with people that I know is because of the competitive aspect of it. It becomes about winning, and owning each other, and bragging. Even when it is one hundred percent good natured socialization , my distaste for competitive behavior makes it an unappealing situation for me. With Eve being my personal recreation I refuse to do something,just because I am told to do it. That causes me that much unpleasantness.
Thus, the entire, putting kills on the killboard thing left me with an unpleasant feeling. I'm a niche player. For whatever reason, I find random off the path things interesting. I like to salvage. I like building the random things I find exploring. I'm enjoying running a low sec market. I do a lot of things but I cannot say that any of the things I do puts kills on the killboard as a primary occupation.
I'm not a good PvPer. I doubt I ever will be. Any situation where my stats will be judged is a situation where I will fall short.
I stopped writing this post because it turned into one of my endless thoughts on my lack of PvP ability. I'd wander in circles about this, struggling with the same problems over and over until I was tired of myself. I still suffer from these feelings. It has led me to accept that I need to find where I fit in Eve as a future project.

Since then THC2 has gone silent. LR has quit the game. Diz has moved on to 7-2. I still chat with Ender and he plays on my Minecraft server. I picked this post because it was the last time I talked about Kittens. Shortly after, he unsubbed and I've missed him. Kittens was in my very first corp so I have known him since my second week of the game.

Yesterday, he logged back in and is giving Eve a bit of a try again. I don't have a home to offer him. However, his good nature and fun personality has always done well by him. I am overjoyed to see him again. There is a bubbling feeling of joy to see someone that I so enjoyed again.


  1. Speaking for myself only, I find enthusiasm, regardless of origin, infectious. Every so often I'll settle in and listen to the latest EVE Prosper Market Show, not because I'm a speculator, but rather because it's so damn cool there's a fellow out there enthusiastic enough to regularly produce such a show. You don't muck with passion like that, you just adoringly swim in it.

    Seems to me LR lost out on a great opportunity . . . "You collect corpses Kitten? Well I just happen to specialize in making them. Perhaps we have the basis for a mutually beneficial arrangement?"

  2. Glad to read that your old buddy is back.

    One of the few things I regret of my talking-but-not-paying approach to EVE, is that I may be missing it if some old buddy returns to game. What if I was away and everybody else was back?

    Of course I think that my old buddies left in such way that it's unlikely that they ever come back. EVE hasn't changed enough, and maybe it just has become a worst place for PvE overall. vºv

    But, what if I was the only one still away...?

    Sometimes i wish CCP did something dramatic to justifiy giving them another 15 euros and try back. Poke my nose and see how things have changed in the last two years... if CCP just did something dramatic...

  3. Something like this comes up when I talk about basketball with my friends. Stay with me here, it's not actually about basketball so you don't need to know it to understand the point.

    When my friends talk about "The Greats", it's the Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain types. The guys that put points on the board. Me on the other hand, I say John Stockton is the greatest basketball player ever. He never got many points, what he did was assists. He made sure the ball got to where it needed to go so the team could score. And he did it better than anyone in history, by a long shot. No one else even comes close to his numbers. He was one of those guys who could step off the bench and magically make his team better without seemingly doing anything at all.

    So how does this apply to Eve? The NBA doesn't have stats that can measure guys like Stockton. They just don't. They're too rare and almost as one they avoid the spotlight. Corps and Killboards in Eve aren't really setup to appreciate them either. It's one of the things I like about Mittens, even if I don't like the man himself. He absolutely gushes about the utility players in the background whenever he can. He understands that the guys who don't put tick marks on the killboard are the backbone to his organization.

    It's something I think Diz got that you didn't. You weren't getting a special pass because you're a snowflake. You're getting a pass because you're the utility player, you make everyone else's job easier almost by magic without seemingly doing anything that a statistic on a killboard can measure. You facilitated the PVPers the chance to be better at their chosen field by being good at yours.

    1. Yeh

      Never underestimate support roles, people usually don't notice how useful they are and how their contribution isn't direct. All of the extra stuff you get out of your 'core' / boots on the ground is because of support roles.

      A Band Apart?

    2. While I appreciate your elaborations Halycon and Spaceman, part of the difficulty Sugar was exploring is that special pass "exception clause" language doesn't quite cut it. Even with the best of intentions, invoking an exception clause is alienating. At best, you're tolerated, rather than embraced. If one was fully embraced, there would be no need for an exception clause because what one brought to the table would be valued from the get go.

    3. I've thought about your point Dire. And I'm not really sure we'll ever have parity or acceptance. The combat types hold the majority opinion. They may not be the actual majority, but they're the aspirational idea CCP sells to the public and the one that holds sway in development time. The game caters to them.

      Yes, once a pilot passes a certain level of complexity, which happens within a few days, they need all the rest of us. But for most players our role is obfuscated by the market. Corps don't really need us until they hit a certain level of size and complexity, and then all the sudden they do. But again, if we've done our job right they don't even know we did it. Not really. They may know we did something intellectually, but that's a far cry from understanding it.

      So I don't really blame them. The game does a good job of hiding the industrial player. We get the least amount of development time from CCP, and when we do get it it's usually a below the fold announcement. Parts of the mineral market didn't make sense for years, it took them a decade to rebalance egregious offenders. It's debatable if it's any better now than it was before. But it's vitally important to the game.

      All of that's a really long winded way to say. I don't ever expect to be taken for my own merits with what i do in Eve now. The game works too hard to marginalize that area, a lot of the time without even knowingly doing it. Normally it's enough that I know. The only time it really feel alienated is when the PVPers start commenting on it because one time they built something out of a BPC that dropped then sold it on the market for "risk free" isk.

    4. Made a mistake.

      Parts of the mineral market didn't make sense for years, it took them a decade to rebalance egregious offenders.

      Should read...

      Parts of the mineral market didn't make sense for years, it took them a decade to rebalance ALL BUT THE MOST egregious offenders.

    5. Thoughtful reply Halycon and I find I’m at least 50% in agreement with you. Lacking something like publicly displayable kill records, we harvesters, manufacturers and merchants aren’t able to posture in quite the same way as single interest ship on ship PvPers. That said, seeking appreciation from people that don’t understand our enthusiasms strikes me a fool’s errand so I say fuck-em. Not in an angry sense, but rather in a, “I enjoy what I do just fine on its own merits. As my enthusiasms stand on their own, your appreciation isn’t the lynchpin to my enjoyment of this game.” We’re set up as demi-gods in this game, every single one of us. Being a demi-god, I consciously choose to proceed shamelessly. If my shameless enthusiasms happen to synch with yours we just may have grounds for a mutually beneficial arrangement. If they don’t, so be it. You go your way and I’ll go mine.

      If we don’t stand proud atop our enthusiasms, everything is lost from the very get-go so stand proud Halycon. Stand proud.


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