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CSMX - Post #30

Vanguard was released with a minor hiccup. Multibuy was disabled for a day or two thanks to a bug. Beyond that, the release was smooth and it was quickly over shadowed.

CCP Seagull released a view of the roadmap into the expansion planned for the Spring of 2016. She promised to be more open with the future plans and projects and she delivered. Now you all are seeing a lot of what we have been looking at as it stretches towards Fanfest.

The thing about this roadmap is that it is not set in stone. The features are planned for the times listed. Developers set their own release goals instead of their management setting them. Those goals can and may move. Something may move from one release to another so don't get 100% sold on dates. Releasing this general guide is part of that communication step where CCP let's us know what they are doing and what they envision in Eve's future instead of hiding in the corner scared because people got mad in Incarna. Personally, this is the type of openness and sharing I've pushed for and supported. I'm invested in it and I hope it goes well.

The hope is that opening up these goals will allow us to ponder, debate, and give feedback sooner in the process. It will let the players see that CCP has long term plans. The exciting future horizon will be blurry but in view instead of something we hope to see when we wake up and peer out the ships window in the morning.

Some changes to data sites includes some of my projects. The changes in Odyssey made exploration a different game. Sites have steadily devalued over the last two years and rebalance and changes in the sites have been a constant request. CCP Red Dawn is addressing some of it in bits and pieces as one of his projects. Involved in that is a task that I mentioned in June where I was approached about getting a better spread of COSMOS items into data sites. Some had been added but it created a piecemeal situation where nothing productive actually happened. I felt a bit bad but I jumped CCP Red Dawn in the middle of his data site rebalance idea and beat him with the COSMOS stuff to.

There has been a general comment that the items are not worth it or its silly and will not help. The COSMOS items and in general story line items are being rebalanced as their modules are rebalanced. If t he items exist properly to build them, their prices will stabilize at a normal value instead of spiking wildly due to broken sites. It is not an instantaneous headship full rebalancing. It is a process that will give greater value to later rebalance processes and create a more rippling change. It isn't a Jesus feature, but I'm pleased that it has happened.

When it comes to that whole module rebalance thing CCP Fozzie has made a post for tweaks and the addition of a new module that has been discussed off and on for quite some time. It is all about missiles

The Discovery, an ice mining frigate's stats are available. I expect we will see a very interesting change in the face of ice mining. However, familiarity and barges will keep people where they are more often then not.

The brain in the box mass test happened. That is a good thing. CCP Habakuk did a bit of question answering for those interested. One thing addressed is USTZ testing. CCP knows they could get more people if they tested during USTZ. However, coordination is harder outside of normal working hours.

On Saturday, the Day 4 minutes from the summit came out. The faction warfare and PvE section was at first missing. In it is an interesting project Team Space Glitter has been tasked with involving daily rewards. I then derailed things to discuss the upcoming changes to Faction Warfare she and I have been working on. What is getting addressed:

  • T3D are getting kicked out of small complexes
  • FW missions are being reworked by CCP Red Dawn
  • FW based NPC patrols are being added
  • These convoy's will fight each other
  • Allowing individuals to enroll in FW without the entire corp/alliance having to go
  • Maybe making it easier to change militia with the standings stuff up to decoupling standings and being in the militia.
  • 4 way war between militia. It is a true 4 way war not just the removal of allies.
  • Suspect flagging when entering FW complexes. 

Most of this is stuff I've been talking about since last year. Its getting bundled up and worked on. These are the plans that have survived changes, upheavels, and development road maps as well as design needs and time. I was pretty pleased with it all. I still am. The response so far has been 'oh well nothing of matter is happening and FW is still being left to stagnate and die without things being addressed'. Normally I try to smile. I never know how something will be received and I stopped trying to guess a while ago. But having put a lot into this I'm not able to smile as easily as I normally try to. I'm sorry that it wasn't good enough.

However, on Thursday, when I was a lot happier, I gave into Dirk's polite requests and went onto his Open Coms Show. I hang out during the first two hours. Some expressed surprise that I went on. I'm not one for talk media. I never feel that I have much to say. I do hold my monthly talks. For instance, I plan to do so this evening at 2000 GMT with Thoric along for null sec and Corbexx along to be Corbexx.

That leaves us with two and half weeks till Eve Vegas.


  1. I think I may have been unduly harsh in slack and I want to clarify something. You, and then other CSMs, have done marvelous work. While I disagree with some of the proposed changes, it is super clear that you have done great work pushing CCP to pay attention to lowsec and it is spectacularly appreciated. But, the influence of the CSM is limited. Any frustration is with CCP and their attitude towards FW, which they still seem to perceive as a pve activity primarily. The changes, while good, reflect a perspective by CCP that seems to lack any appreciation for the issues faced by enablers and instigators in FW. Thank you for your service to the community and please do not misconstrue frustration with CCP for dissatisfaction with the work of this CSM.

    1. Is it not technically a PVE activity, albeit one influenced by player activity? But at its core, all those sites are PVE, are they not?

      I don't think CCP considers FW as primarily a PVE activity. Just the underlying mechanics of the FW system that utilizes sites as the means. The genuine activity is coming from the players in helping or trying to stop other players from working that PVE piece. And I'll be honest that I'm on the outside looking in. Maybe faction warriors see it a different way and it's being lost in translation somewhere.


  2. [ 2015.10.03 19:44:31 ] Sugar Kyle > it may be utterly boring and you are just disapointed in me <3

    You lied to us! *gasps* How could you!

    *stops pretending to be outraged*

    HELL YES! You're amazing, this is amazing, we are not worthy, etc.

    This is gonna be awesome, thank you so much.

  3. "In it is an interesting project Team Space Glitter has been tasked with involving daily rewards."

    Thanks for reminding me I need to start doing my dailies again. I'd really like to reduce the taxes I pay for selling items in Hek as much as possible.

    1. Dailies in an open world sand box mmorpg

      /me facedesks

      What's next CCP games introducing log in rewards to !
      Oh shit, probably should not have mentioned that either.

      You log in to because you have your own goals, at least we used to have (mini) professions and at least skill setting reasons, but the Company is really doing it's best to kill off (mini) professions and adding longer skill ques.

      Regards, a Freelancer

  4. As a high sec solo player, I see little of upcoming interest.

    I recognize that there are many play styles in Eve, but the dedicated high sec solo player always seems to get pushed to go to either low or null sec. I live in a world where real life always takes priority. If a child needs attention, or the phone rings I abandon the game and attend to life.

    An analysis of advice from low/null sec players amounts to "always be flying your ship and be aware of your surroundings", For me, this is impractical and so I stick to high sec where I can go afk from time to time (and yes, I sometimes get punished for this, but very rarely).

    Given that there are 34 players in local in my fairly obscure mission hub system right now, I suspect that I am not alone in my playstyle.

    Is it too much to ask CCP for love for the players who can't fully dedicate their game play time to Eve?

    1. Ael,

      Your comment appears to confuse CCP with low/null sec players. Of course low/null players deliver advice appropriate to their game style – it’s what they prefer and know. But they aren’t CCP.

      The ground truth underlying your post is that you and 34 other players have found their casual niche in an obscure mission hub. No doubt, numerous other hubs exist. Your niche flourishes.

      I notice you didn’t identify your hub . . . Why? Because casual play in Eve is often about flying under the radar. Being able to up and walk away from the screen in a dangerous universe like Eve well-nigh requires flying under the radar – being seen is being dead. So take pleasure in playing against the low/null/wormhole grain. Living the easy life is what we dedicated Hi-seccers do so please don’t bring overt attention onto our posh lives. Overt attention messes with the under the radar vibes. Let the headlines go elsewhere and keep plying your casual trade.

      CCP knows what we casual Hi-Seccers are up to (they have the numbers) and still they display the extraordinary decency to not make a big fuss about it. They leave it under the radar just like we prefer.

    2. any increase in the overall games improvements benefits the majority of the games players, this is usually what the extend of the Company efforts are for hisec players, baring a dedicated expansion like Incursions

  5. Being primarily a space industrialist these days, I discover I bring a rather detached attitude to Eve because whatever the zeitgeist feel of the moment, I also have concrete numbers about which of my products are selling at what price and quantity. If Incarna generated a ‘Summer of Rage’ to be capped off with a Hilmar apology and sizable CCP reorganization, this summer may well end up being called the ‘Summer or Crybabies’ to by capped off by CCP Ytterbium putting his foot down ( followed by a nimble CCP enthusiastically iterating on plans, features and implementation. Through this ebb and flow my little industrial empire churns along unperturbed.

    Tantrums can be enjoyable things but one has to deploy them sparingly or they become embarrassing “No! Me, me, me and only me!” spectacles getting one ignored rather than listened to. Perhaps the worst part about tantrums is how their all in nature sets the thrower up for a binary ‘fully successful’ or ‘embarrassing failure’ result. There’s no room to adjust. No room to negotiate. No room to play the long game. You either win right here, right now, hike up the volume yet again or fail in ignominious defeat consigned forever to crybaby irrelevancy.

    So Sugar, the next time you see an ongoing project get genuine CCP attention and some crybaby responds with “oh well nothing of matter is happening and FW is still being left to stagnate and die without things being addressed” do be aware that this is the tail end of tantrum throwing. Crybabies can’t accept partial victory. They can’t play the long game tucking small wins in their pocket before returning to the table for the next round of negotiation. They’ve already played all their cards. They’re one and done. They consign themselves to irrelevancy. Inability to mollify tantrum throwers does not reflect poorly on you Sugar, it reflects poorly on them.

  6. Ignore the naysayers, Sugar. Keep up the good work!

  7. Is ice in WHs different from ice in k-space? Seems like a waste of time to bother with it when you can just buy from bots in empire.

    1. The quality and type is better. High sec also has a finite amount of ore and cannot provide all of the needs of the game after the changes in Odyssey.

  8. I'm excited for the FW changes!

  9. Absolutely Love some of the changes listed for FW. Additionally you have changes to all of eve that will help newbro's in FW space a lot (Starting SP for example).

    Thanks for all that you do,
    - Than

    P.S. "Allowing individuals to enroll in FW without the entire corp/alliance having to go" gives me the willies. :)

  10. On the topic of past exploration changes, the increased rate of expeditions offered from anomalies probably hasn't been friendly to the combat site exploration loot value. Add to this the increased chance of hisec anoms leading to hisec expeditions.

    People are farming anoms all day long in their passive Ishtars or auto-targeting Tengus, collecting tons of private little 4/10s and 5/10s to run in hisec. The 5/10s aren't too terrible I guess, because they take some time to complete and open up the player to being combat probed and getting some competition. But 4/10s are so fast to complete they likely will not get scanned down by anyone.

    It would be interesting if hisec expedition 4/10s had a 3rd room added to increase completion time. Maybe even normal hisec 4/10s as well. Or if hisec expeditions convert to normal signatures once a ship enters them.

    There's not much reason to scan for 4/10s anymore in hisec since you can so easily farm private ones via anoms.

  11. "Developers set their own release goals instead of their management setting them.
    Caveat: Those goals can and may move."

    Wow, this is the first awesome news I heard from a(ny) CSM (X) member since they started !

    I hope you will see the fruits of your labor at the end of the road, good luck o7

    Regards, a Freelancer

    PS: 4 way war between militia. It is a true 4 way war not just the removal of allies.

    All out open war between the 4 Empires perhaps, business will be $ G00D $

  12. Sugar Kyle

    First thanks for your efforts on csm.

    You say "The response so far has been 'oh well nothing of matter is happening and FW is still being left to stagnate and die without things being addressed'. Normally I try to smile. I never know how something will be received and I stopped trying to guess a while ago."

    As a player I stopped trying to guess what csm would do. I think allot of players feel the same as I do. There is definitely a communication gap between csm and players. Neither should have to "guess" about what the others views are.

    Perhaps a seperate thread on eve-o where you talk about each topic you might push for with ccp. Let players comment on the thread. If they say nothing and then complain, well you can always point to the thread and tell them they had an opportunity to discuss the issues before-hand.

    You did a good job of this with your stepping into faction war thread. Except you kept it artificially narrow to "new players." I will tell you that many who do faction war are annoyed by ccp's constant insistence that faction war is supposed to be some sort of stepping stone to null. I can say that if you made it a point of telling ccp, the players are tired of ccp giving this view you would have scored points with many in the faction war crowd right off the bat. Maybe ccp doesn't want to hear what more experienced players want out of faction war. But then again you do not only need to tell ccp what they want to hear you can also tell them what the players want them to hear.

    The FW group certainly does not speak with one voice except on a few issues like timer roll backs. But I think if you would engage the group and listen to them you would gain some understanding and you would see some ideas clearly make sense while others are misguided.

    Perhaps you do not feel you are the right person to do that.IDK. But you will at least be able to guess who will be happy with what you say and who will be less than pleased.

    But now it seems that all of the csm get private messages from people who their buddies, and never actually talk publicly about issues in the game in any sort of constructive way. As long as that continues players will not know what you intend on presenting to ccp and csm will not know how players will react.

    Anyway it is just a suggestion.


    1. I know the thread was artificially narrow. It had to be. Normally, I try to be wide but in that case I had to define it as much as possible to do my best to get the feedback that I needed to get anything done. I know that the scope would not satisfy everyone. There is nothing I can do about that. My goal was to get every bit that I could.

      Your opinions on CCPs view of FW is not one that I have seen expressed by CCP. It is an interpretation of CCP not following suggested changes or approaches or do everything that some players feel are on the list.

      I do not hang out on the forums very often. I never have. I do not think that I will start. I am sorry if I have not been open and accessible enough in your opinion. The Eve Online forums are not the environment that I have ever functioned in. I understand how it is easy to assume that there is some swath of private messages going around dictating things. That is not the case. I have, in fact, been detailing out my goals for faction warfare on my blog since last year.

      I will never understand how the players will react. Your reaction for instance is not one I expected but one I accept having heard it. It is not the same as I receive from other places.

      I do tend to expect people who wanted changes to like the changes they wanted instead of dismissing them and moving onto the next topic as the only thing they have ever been interested in.

      FW is not my area of game play. I have tried to dive into it and bring improvements and changes to the players who do consider it their game. I am sorry that my efforts have not been enough.

    2. Is there a CSM delegate who maintains a more consistently active role in communicating with players, especially those most likely to be part of their constituency, than Sugar? She blogs regularly about what she's thinking, answers comments on those blogs, hosts sound boards, and is pretty generally accessible. I doubt that if you collected every one liner or short paragraph issued by any other CSM on reddit or the EVE-O forums or whatever hidden place they use for communicating, if they communicate at all, you'd be hard pressed to find one that is more communicative than she is. I could be wrong. Maybe there is one out there.

      What's great for those who think she isn't communicating enough will be the next election. When FW, or whichever part of the game you want to name, elects that perfect candidate who is both a subject-matter expert, actually does something on the CSM, does it in a way that gets their message across, and pro-actively communicates with the playerbase. Sadly, I haven't seen that happen very often.

      Here's a serious question though: where do all the FW thought leaders hand out and post their ideas? Do they blog, write articles, communicate with a demographic without being on the CSM? Is it just Niden on Crossing Zebras? I ask because I don't see it. I see a lot of material related to null and occasionally I get directed to a forum post or reddit thread. Maybe faction warriors don't mass communicate. Which would be bad when it comes time to elect someone. Because if they aren't doing it now, they won;t get any better at doing it after being elected.

    3. Hi Sugar and Dirk

      First I hope you were not offended by my post. I didn't mean it to be offensive. But rather in the spirit of the issues that were raised in the summit about the purpose of csm.

      Before I get into the all the issues let me just say that I am not really all that tuned in. CCP ignoring Faction war concerns and generally giving false hope for years has pretty much caused me to lose allot of the interest I had in the game. (more on that below) I am not a bitter person generally, I have a great family and do allot of volunteer work etc.

      So anyway I am not tuned in like I used to be. Also when I talk about "faction war players" I might only be talking about a small fraction of the 20,000 characters signed up for faction war. I assume the majority of the characters in faction war are alts. The fw sov game is set up for alts.

      At least for me faction war was a good fit because I am interested in playing eve for a few hours every week or 2. I have no interest in trying to organize other players, or for that matter to socialize. I just wanted log on get some fun fights, preferably help my militia and call it a night. There are of course faction war players who can, and do, spend much more time online than I do. And I think they are fine with the changes that were intended to make fw more like null sec such as station lockouts.

    4. Communication:
      At the csm summit the issue was raised as to how the csm are supposed to really know about different parts of the game and how they can better harness player feedback. It was suggested that they have some players in a closed group. That idea was criticized because it was closed off.

      I suggested that csm members create a thread on eve-o forums for the topic they intend to discuss with ccp so that they (and the players interested in that topic) can look at that single thread to get feedback. Mike Azariah pointed out a few issues with the idea and I responded here:
      [I guess your blog won’t let me post a link so I invite those interested to check the csm x summit minutes thread post #109]
      Past csms had created threads for what they were going to discuss. And I thought it was a worthwhile effort. CCP creates threads when they want player feedback and I think they benefit from that. Jayne did this as well with respect to little things, and sugar did that with new players in fw. I may not agree with the csm/ccp members views but I will give them credit for at least being open with the players and eliciting responses. CCP still does that, but the csm rarely does that anymore.

      Mike suggested that I send a link to ideas I wanted to discuss with csm. That is why I sent Sugar, him and Gorski Carr the link to some of the faction war ideas that have been kicked around for years – some which ccp said they would do years ago but still have never gotten around to.

      In the end Mike thought players sending these evemails would somehow resolve issues of a lack of transparency. That makes no sense to me. He said that he likes doing things that way so that is why I said csm does their work through private messages.

      In the end I think it is reasonable for a person who asked to be a csm member to participate in 3-4 threads on the official game forum that address topics they want to discuss with ccp. If as a csm member you are not interested in say faction war or wormholes and have no intention of telling ccp anything about those topics you would not need to check those threads. Really no csm would “need” to check the threads. It would be nice if players had a way to communicate with csm about the issues they find important though. Ideally it would mean each csm might actively follow and participate in 3-4 threads with the players.
      I think that is more reasonable than asking players who just play the game constantly check all the different blogs each csm member might have, all the reddit posts they might post, and all the forums they might post in, all the town halls and soundboards etc etc etc. Just to find out if they said something about the part of the game they are interested in. I mean that is a bit much for someone like me who just views eve as a game that they like to play every now and then.

      Maybe I am wrong on that. But if nothing changes players are going to continue to have to “guess” what their csm members are going say to ccp and csm are going to have to “guess” how the players will respond.

      I am a pretty casual player. I am not inclined to set up different accounts on all sorts of different blogs, reddit, forums, sound boards town halls etc. just for a game I play occasionally. Nor am I going to scour all these different outlets trying to track down what bits and pieces that different csm have said that likely don’t even effect the part of the game I am interested in.

      That is the point when the information is spread out in bits and pieces all over the internet it might as well not even exist. Have a single place people can go to get an idea of where their csm stands and you have a much better communication channel. The official eve forum just seems like an obvious choice.

    5. CCP’s View of Faction War:
      I said fw players are tired of ccp’s view of faction war as some sort of stepping stone to null.
      Sugar said:
      “Your opinions on CCPs view of FW is not one that I have seen expressed by CCP. It is an interpretation of CCP not following suggested changes or approaches or do everything that some players feel are on the list.”
      Well a ccp producer specifically referred to faction war as a stepping stone to null sec in a youtube video around the time inferno was released. But beyond that yes it is my opinion that ccp clearly does view fw players as second class citizens when compared to null sec players.

      My opinion that ccp treats faction war players as second class players is based on several facts over the years here are just a few that come to mind immediately.
      1) They had a round table at fanfest that several faction war players flew to Iceland to attend. Oops ccp forgot to send someone.
      2) They acknowledged faction war players have repeatedly asked for timer rollbacks and said they would do that. They also said they would give faction war better intel tools so they can defend plexes. These measures would likely end the alt plexing infestation. Well they said they would do this back in 2012. Here are the quotes with links:
      [I guess your blog won’t let me post a link so I invite those interested to check the csm x summit minutes thread post #144]
      Oh but null sec wants rollbacks? They somehow get that out in months. It’s disheartening to see it is now a new team who apparently have no clue about these past promises. Why do fw players give up on ccp?
      3) Despite never being popular with the faction war players ccp forced station lockouts on faction war to make it more like null sec sov.
      4) They even changed the name from faction war occupancy to fw “sovereignty” to make it more similar to null sec sov. This just created an ambiguity as to what people mean when they say “sov.”
      5) They still refer to faction war as a sort of testbed for null sec.
      6) They can’t even have a entire conference about faction war. They have to split half the time with some new pve mechanic.
      7) Have they ever just changed the sov null sec system literally overnight without giving the null sec players any warning and thereby ruining the strategies they were pursuing for months? Well they did that with faction war on October 22nd 2012.

    6. As far as faction war players electing their own csm, it has happened in the past. We elected Hans and he did set up threads, and faction war players could interact with him at first. But then later it was a bit harder to know where he stood on things and his discussion circle got a bit smaller. His views then happened to coincide with many in his own militia. I do not think he had any intentional bias. Not at all. I do think he just got used to talking to his own people on coms or whatever. That sort of thing just happens.
      That is why I tend to think the csm is at best a waste and at worst gives ccp a distorted picture of player’s views. At least from my perspective I have no idea what ideas they are advocating with respect to the game as it effects me. I only get glimpses when the minutes are released and that is a bit late isn’t it? And it seems like the communication with the players is just getting worse and worse. I don’t mean this to be offensive to you Sugar.

      Mynxee put a huge amount of effort into getting player feedback when she was on csm. Hans on the whole did allot too. Other csms did as well but I can’t remember all their names. But on the whole it is pretty laughable. Sugar is doing well above the curve but I just don’t think having a private blog where you occasionally talk about game issues is comparable to a dedicated, topic focused, forum thread where you interact with players and their ideas.
      For one blogs have all sorts of odd restrictions like how many characters you can type so it can be difficult to address anything in detail. Moreover some don’t allow you post links so you can easily provide the citations to exactly what you are referring to.
      For another the blog format seems to be time sensitive. It gets buried by other newer blogs. But, for example, faction war has been waiting on the same fixes ccp said they would do years ago. It’s just one of these things where no one wants to keep beating the same drum, but if you don’t, then you see the minutes of a csm ccp meeting where the issues were completely forgotten.

    7. Cearain, I appreciate your favorable impression of my CSM comms performance but as I remember it, I blogged mostly about my dissatisfaction with CCP's process and the obstacles to CSM being able work effectively with them. It was other CSM5 members who were much more engaged in obtaining player feedback regarding various proposed changes that had been lingering in the backlog for literally years. You may be remembering the focus groups I conducted during my campaign to gather player feedback on my platform issues.

      Added together, all of the communications I did during my campaign and term can't even come close to Sugar's performance. She is above reproach in this regard. She may not be addressing a topic in a way that is important to you or at all, but she's talking to you here. Besides that, there are a whole bunch of other CSM members. Are you posting on their blogs or in their forum posts or in their reddit threads, too? What's that? You're not that tuned in, you say? OK, fine...but in that case you may want to consider whether you're working with complete information that is needed to have an informed opinion. The times have changed...what was true re communications channels and engagement by CCP/CSMs 5 years ago is stone age compared to now. If you want to be fully informed, you simply have to monitor all the channels. I am hardly tuned in myself beyond playing EVE but I still find time and reasons to be active on Twitter, the EVE O forums, reddit, and occasionally Slack. If you care, and you want to engage in an informed way, it's almost imperative that you do so also.

      It is always great to have players engage like you are doing here (and perhaps elsewhere?) but I gently recommend you take some time see what else is going on CSM-communications-wise. It's more than you may think.

    8. I don;t have enough of an eye into FW-specific stuff. Nothing on the scale of anything but minor gripes. But I'll be honest and say that it's also coming from some guys who keep telling nullsec to HTFU so maybe they don't want to say more that might let on they have their own issues they think need love.

      That being said, I'm not going to lie, I find I don't know a lot about what various CSM members think about a lot of things too. Some aren't good at broad-based public communication, some seem to avoid it like the plague, some just use reddit or other short-answer places, some might say a lot but it happens where it doesn't really creep out into the broader public arena and some may say quite a bit but are so vague it was like they didn't say anything. I mean, does it really help if someone says a metric ton of stuff in slack if you don't frequent slack and someone can't even link you the comment?

      I wish there was a central place that CSM members used to communicate their views, but there isn't. And I don't see it being forced upon them, which honestly I would if I was CCP. Communicate or GTFO. Because there are far too many people who don't know what they think and can't find it easily enough and that doesn't hurt that player/delegate, it hurts the institution of the CSM itself. But again, Sugar is quite the opposite. I didn't know Sugar before she became a CSM. I didn't know of her until I started seeing and reading CSM-related stuff from her. Now she's basically my yardstick for CSM communication. At least in the last couple of terms. We don't agree on some things, probably a lot, but I wish the others would be as open because I really think the player base needs to hear from these folks, and not just when shit goes bad.

      Anyway, good on you for taking the time to discuss the topic as at length as you did. And with civility. Everyone needs to remember the CSM aren't magicians and can't force anything upon CCP. Sadly for the CSM, they are still kind of in a position of not being able to publicly claim many victories, but still take the heat when things don't go the way the player base may be happy with. I know there are some who are trying very hard.

    9. Mynxee

      No doubt times are different from csm 5. I am 5 years older but feel 10 years older.

      I think CSM 5 was the best CSM because of the huge change you triggered in publishing those minutes the way you did. You did it in a very professional and understated way, but it had a big impact on ccp and I think the game is much healthier for it. (And if I recall right I gave you some subpar advise that I am glad you didn’t take on how to publish them.)

      For those who don’t know those minutes let players know ccp was basically putting eve on an 18 month hold to work on walking in stations. And no, despite his attempt to claim credit for ccp’s change of direction Mittani did not cause that change (he was on csm 6). Csm 5 and the players caused the change, perhaps despite mittani who initially defended incarna.

      As far as communication with the players I singled you out because you set up that idea board. I am not saying that was the best way to do things. But it wasn't bad. Also I had not seen such a thing before and IMO it demonstrated a tremendous initiative and concern to give players a format to voice their opinions. Others on csm 5 did allot of work on the eve-o forums as well. Trebor was one but there were others.

      I freely admit I am not tuned in. I waited about a year for ccp to make the fixes they said they would, in faction war, and then got discouraged when they “rebalanced” ogbs by basically leaving them in the same broken state. So I decided to take one of my occasional breaks from eve and didn't log in for about a year.

      My best friend started playing eve so I am sorta getting back into it. But not as much as I used to. CCP still hasn't fixed faction war or ogbs, so low sec pvp is not of much interest to me. But I think I will try some null sec stuff with him.
      I doubt I will have time to follow reddit and all the different forums and blogs. Actually I sort of hope I won't. Eve can suck me in too much. Plus there is allot of stuff in eve I don't really care about. It's such a huge game.
      I still think csm members should put a post up on the official eve forums for what they want to talk about. That way players can give feedback without having to search the internet to find the discussion topics.
      But I am sure most csm members do not want to discuss substance because they are happy to be elected on fluff. (the epitome of this was mittani.) I don’t think this includes Sugar Kyle btw. In looking through her blog it is apparent she is willing to discuss the substance of issues. I just didn’t know her blog was here until a while ago. And even then I don’t always check various blogs. I have my own non-eve wordpress blog. I will see if I can link hers and a few others to that, so I get notifications.

    10. Dirk

      IMO the problem with faction war is that sov is most efficiently won by rabbit plexing. Rabbit plexing is where you sit in a plex run the timer but avoid all pvp. If an enemy comes warp away a few systems over and then start running a new plex. And then come back and finish the first plex after the enemy leaves. The issue is as old as faction war. Ankasomelongname who was morally opposed to pvp got the highest amarr rank in less than a week based on her plexing. She bragged that she did not need to get a single kill the entire time. And her accomplishment was done years before inferno was even released. With all the changes to faction war that we have seen since then, ccp never fixed this.

      The way to fix this is not really that complicated. 1) have plex timers roll back zero, so when the rabbit leaves he will lose any time on the clock he gained. 2) give militias real time intel on when plexes are being taken so they have time to go and fight for them. That way pvpers can effectively cover a larger portion of the map and prevent rabbits from infesting.

      These 2 changes may seem minor but they would change faction war sov forever. CCP said they would do this but for some reason never got around to it. I think ccp is too concerned with giving players ways to make isk and not enough fun pvp wars for them to lose it. I have lots of isk but it’s hard to find something fun and rewarding to do with it.

      I share your views of many on the csm. I do listen to podcasts since I often have to drive, and heard that one csm member was upset that he was named for suggesting a wormhole change to ccp. All the other csm were afraid to tell people who said what. I just thought wow csm is so bad that they are actually getting upset if players find out what they said to ccp.

      IMO the csm just started it’s downward spiral with Mittani who said he is not a junior dev so don’t talk to him about eve mechanics. What is the point of having csm if not to help ccp develop the game? From that point it csm just became more and more opaque to the point we are at now, where csm members feel it is somehow wrong to tell players what other csms telling ccp. It’s just bizarre to me.

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