Skip to main content

TCS: Balancing Consumption

The module fairy flies out of his Nebula and into the hangars of capsuleers all over Eve. There he delivers random things that they need but not enough to fit a ship in any reasonable way. In a burst of capacitor dust he appears and leaves some meta 3 rocket launchers and a pile of depleted uranium beside the Atron with 1% left to its hull structure and no repair facilities, with a few dusty inertia stabilizers for good luck. With his duties done, the module fairy opens a jump portal and without fatigue or limitations heads off to his next delivery to a needy Tengu that he has the perfect set of torpedoes for...
A very common question I receive is, "Sugar do you go to people to get your goods for your market?" I often respond to this question by saying, "I wish that I did. I've tried and it rarely works out."

It is a common enough question that although I have addressed it before, I will touch upon it again.

I believe that Eve was originally sculpted around the idea of everything being an interconnected circle. We can call it the circle of life.

A very simplified discussion...

For many in Eve, success has come from specialization. The same environment that makes Eve a fascinating game also makes it one where people have to depend on themselves. A complete corporate concept that involves everything from miners to a crack PvP wing is a popular one that often fails to realize itself. And when it does realize itself, it is often a segmented and detached creation full of individual safties and singular opportunity.

Eve is also about volume. Huge amounts of ore is collected. Huge amounts refined. Hundreds or thousands of items are built. An industrialist once set up and rolling will churn out thousands of items. All of these items need to go somewhere and in an ideal world they'd go to marketers and people who need them. In an ideal, ideal world they'd do it through contracts and direct trade cutting out NPC taxes and broker fees.

To step out of my comfort zone of personal experience, I will note that mass scale, contained industry does exist in some areas of null. The corporations and alliances bu the ore, moon go, and products that the membership makes. Its poured back into the group or sold off. I do not have the experience to speak on it other than the bits I have gleaned from those that live it.

But others? Many produce so much that they cannot siphon it off in tiny bundles here and there. It takes contacts to sell everything locally and not everyone is good at making those types of contacts. There are not enough tiny marketeers such as myself running around. It requires coordination and communication and reliability of need. We have it in some places. Things like Faction Warfare can create vast networks due to the hard coded mechanics of allies. But in the end trade hubs prosper. People can buy what they need and all that they need. Commerce happens. Individuals create tremendous volume. The industrialists a place for all that they build and it vanishes down into the dark maw of... somewhere. And then it explodes.

Killboards only tell a small part of the story of where stuff goes. In that vast red arc of somewhere is my market. If I am busy, I may have a week where I buy a hundred small armor trimarks. Now, this is a lot to me. A hundred? Phew. That's a whole lot of rigs. But for someone who is making their ISK off of production my hundred may be a drop in their bucket. I also need thirty Damage Control Unit II's for this week, or maybe this month. I don't know yet.

I have no idea where it all goes. Some goes right back into the market and a new career is born. Those who buy and sell and buy and sell again, changing prices and gleaning ISK as items exchange hands.

If an industrialist makes their ISK off of volume, I make my ISK off of variety. An industrialists would need a dozen marketers such as myself to consume their focused production. Each marketer would need a few dozen industrialists to create all the various things that they needed. It would be a great balance if it existed. But, it does not. We use Jita and Amarr or Dodixie and Rens as a over all place of exchange and consume what we need, sinking ISK out of the game in the process.

The market is more convenient. I've tried to buy from people but I cannot dictate what my needs will be. I've also tried to sell to people and I've struggled to sell boosters directly to my corporation mates. Yet, having them on the market caused them to sell and my production to increase.

It is convince and access with a healthy dose of unpleasant support tools. Corporate contracts are like to cause a man to claw his keys from his keyboard and throw them at the monitor. Time zones and the irritating interruption of our out of Eve life all combine into a big pool of frustration.

Buying things off of the market is easier. The accessibility is good but it could be more.


  1. You can buy thing from people without having to deal with all these problems: set up buy orders in Surajento. They can be filled by anyone, haulers who bring it from Jita, producers, or even simple guys who get rid of loot.

    1. While this is true, it doesn't quite get at what Sugar is talking about.

      When asked, "Sugar do you go to people to get your goods for your market?" she, in so many words, replies 'No, I go to anonymous market hubs' followed by a detailed first person exploration of why market hubs develop (crucial convenience) and the 'invisible hand' that guides them.

      Your response doesn't change the anonymous nature of what's afoot. Rather, it promotes creating a new market hub in Surajento which, as best I can tell, is well beyond the The Cougar Store's 'reasonable price' goals and given TCS's low-sec location, probably a fool's errand.

    2. One problem is getting orders filled as I need them. I could and it would trickle in but I'd have to tie up ISK and orders that I don't have. I'd still have to supplement from Jita to keep stocks flowing. I'd need more alts as well.

  2. I'm still waiting for the "TCS franchise", some kind of alliance with a headquarter doing market research and getting in touch with manufactures to buy stuff in bulk for a good price, sending it to the local market corporations which will sell those items for a price calculated by the headquarter. People would know that they don't have to fly 10 jumps to Surajento to buy a Jaguar fitting for a decent price but could instead fly to the next TCS store 1 or 2 jumps away to get the same fitting for the same price.
    Like a New Eden Starbucks or McD... no matter where you are you'll find the same products for the same price.
    Each franchise corp would have its own market system in lowsec and with fixed sell prices (maybe some "fire-sale" once a month) they won't destroy each others markets.

    1. While exciting I do no think I am the salesman for such a thing or how I'd even create it. I do think the chance to run your own market vs someone elses would be entertaining.

  3. "Buying things off of the market is easier". I wish I could have a market in my WH. Our corp has a corp store where we build doctrine T3s and sell them 100% fit at a slightly cheaper price. However you have to wait for a director to be on to buy it from them as we use a corp hanger as a store front (everyone has view access but no take). Then there's the problem of trying to cooperate for PI in the wh. Everyone has to be online at the same time and not be doing something else.

    1. It is a very good point you bring up. Can this be better?

    2. We ran into this problem as well. I would love it if contracts could be made at a POS. It would solve most issues

    3. Yes, yes, yes. Endo is spot on. If we could have contracts work at POSes, there'd be no need for the work involved in allowing markets at a POS. It would also solve the problems of having to wait for certain people to be on and then the bizarre ways we need to use to transfer stuff at a POS. Plus, I think having a market in non-Thera w-space would take away a lot of the frontier feel that w-space has.

      I live in Anoikis because it's not like the rest of EVE and I like it that way :)

      The biggest issue I can see regarding contracts at POSes is how does one handle the hangar access issues? In a station, with unlimited storage space, it's no biggie, but at a POS, we're limited in personal hangar array space (if the POS has one) and hanger access. As well, CCP would have to code a way to limit access to the contracted item to just the person it's contracted to.

      But, still, please, please, contracts at POSes.

    4. Perhaps there could be a hangar division solely for contract delivery? Doesn't which division the contacted goods are made in, they will always be delivered to "Division 8". Worrying about someone stealing your contracr won't matter because if I'm accepting the contract then I better make sure I'm in the pos to pick it up.

      Or maybe the can make a new item to serve as a mailbox. They added the Personal Hangar Array. Why not a Contract Hangar Array. You put your goods in the array, create contract, boom.

      The best part would be telling people that their goods are in the CHA-CHA-CHA

  4. I feel your pain/frustration, Sugar.

    My first corp tried to do something like what you're describing. We were going to make ammo so that we didn't have to buy it, and then, once we hit a certain reserve threshold, sell it for profit. We even lined up a steady buyer, but either they kept changing their mind on what they needed, or they weren't as regular as we'd have liked, or we never seemed to have the amount they needed when and, more importantly, where they wanted.

    But, man, it'd be nice if more of EVE's economy worked like that.


Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Maybe one day!

 [15:32:10] Trig Vaulter > Sugar Kyle Nice bio - so carebear sweet - oh you have a 50m ISK bounty - so someday more grizzly  [15:32:38 ] Sugar Kyle > /emote raises an eyebrow to Trig  [15:32:40 ] Sugar Kyle > okay :)  [15:32:52 ] Sugar Kyle > maybe one day I will try PvP out When I logged in one of the first things I did was answer a question in Eve Uni Public Help. It was a random question that I knew the answer of. I have 'Sugar' as a keyword so it highlights green and catches my attention. This made me chuckle. Maybe I'll have to go and see what it is like to shoot a ship one day? I could not help but smile. Basi suggested that I put my Titan killmail in my bio and assert my badassery. I figure, naw. It was a roll of the dice that landed me that kill mail. It doesn't define me as a person. Bios are interesting. The idea of a biography is a way to personalize your account. You can learn a lot about a person by what they choose to put in their bio

Taboo Questions

Let us talk contentious things. What about high sec? When will CCP pay attention to high sec and those that cannot spend their time in dangerous space?  This is somewhat how the day started, sparked by a question from an anonymous poster. Speaking about high sec, in general, is one of the hardest things to do. The amount of emotion wrapped around the topic is staggering. There are people who want to stay in high sec and nothing will make them leave. There are people who want no one to stay in high sec and wish to cripple everything about it. There are people in between, but the two extremes are large and emotional in discussion. My belief is simple. If a player wishes to live in high sec, I do not believe that anything will make them leave that is not their own curiosity. I do not believe that we can beat people out of high sec or destroy it until they go to other areas of space. Sometimes, I think we forget that every player has the option to not log back in. We want them to log


Halycon said it quite well in a comment he left about the skill point trading proposal for skill point changes. He is conflicted in many different ways. So am I. Somedays, I don't want to be open minded. I do not want to see other points of view. I want to not like things and not feel good about them and it be okay. That is something that is denied me for now. I've stated my opinion about the first round of proposals to trade skills. I don't like them. That isn't good enough. I have to answer why. Others do not like it as well. I cannot escape over to their side and be unhappy with them. I am dragged away and challenged about my distaste.  Some of the people I like most think the change is good. Other's think it has little meaning. They want to know why I don't like it. When this was proposed at the CSM summit, I swiveled my chair and asked if they realized that they were undoing the basic structure that characters and game progression worked under. They said th