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CSM9 - Day 232

Here are the Rhea patchnotes. I recommend skimming these while your client launches to see what has been fixed or added. With the new UI came a flood of bugs. Fleet windows not working, chat tabs unblinking, lagging windows, shortcuts not saving, color schemes not switching properly, and then the general complaints about the new system. After a quiet release week Monday hit and the release bugs have started to get ironed out. Thankfully.

The POS Survey is out. Please fill this out. A lot of noise was made about POS being important to the player base. A threadnought was formed. This is a torch that has been passed from one CSM to another. I pray that we are now at the point of using that torch to set the old POS code on fire and I’m going to put my energy into watching that old code burn and something better happen. Please, please, please participate in this.

The Recon rebalance thread is here. It is here early and that is good. Back when CSM9 started I went out seeking feedback on recons for this eventual time. The good news is that helped me comment on the various points of making the Pilgrim useful. The Huginn did not receive missiles sadly and the Curse is even better than it was which has upset some. However, the bulk of the shock is over the dscan immunity for combat recons. That was not something I expected, so there was no, “What if force recons were dscan immune?” in my recon feedback file. I went through the first twenty pages of the thread before I gave up on trying to track who was for and who was against. It is pretty neatly tied with people in the same corporations and alliances actively disagreeing with each other over this feature.

How do I feel about it? I think it sounds interesting. It was one of the times when not being able to share potential changes is very hard. The changes affect groups differently in each area of space. This needs to be judged on what it will do to people. What it does not do is reward awareness. Your awareness which is what has kept you alive. Cloaking already causes this but there are moments when a cloaked ship uncloaks as well as delays associated with it. I’ve listened to a lot of arguments for and against over the last few days.

Suggestions made: Have them act as mobile dscan inhibitors. You see them but not their fleet. Having them appear on scan within 1-2 AU is another way to have them stealthy but not fully unknown. Have them not appear in local but appear in dscan. Have a dscan avoidance module so that they are under the same activation choices as covert recons.

Cons that have been listed: FW complexes with force recons inside or outside of them. DED complexes with force recons inside or outside of them. Unlike cloaks there are no locking delays for when they land on field. The breaking of third party dscan tools. The fact that being aware no longer means anything until they land on grid. Small groups get hit harder than small ones in low sec and wormhole space. They are too tanky.

Some people just absolutely love it and the changes that would come with implementation. It is a very big change with a huge amount of potential ripple effect. I want to believe that if it is broken as hell it would get yanked. I’ve been told that I shouldn’t be so hopeful. Getting this out now, when Proteus is still almost five weeks away is very, very important. Please weigh in on this topic on the thread. I’ve had a lot of really good, well reasoned discussions. I’ve also received some amazingly curse word driven discussion. I am shocked my eve mail has not burst into flames. I’m going to be hopeful about the next tweaks.

The week was full of dev blogs. We have the on demand client coming. This is a new way of downloading Eve where you can start playing before the game is downloaded. It will then call resources as it needs them. It will get new players into the game faster but it will not change anything for our current patching system. There have been very good suggestions in the thread about opting out of features like high resolution textures for those with bandwidth limitations and those who are not interested in the higher textures.

A more focused dev blog on teams has been released. They are not what CCP wanted and instead of leaving them in somewhat broken and irritating they are pulling them. It is good that they are willing to say, “This is not working.” However teams are in use now and some areas and my main worry is that we’d see some area of the market controlled by a small number of people spiral out of control.

If you are into stuff the future Fanfest ships have been announced. There will be a triad of Quafe hulls hitting the market. The dev blog is not clear if those that purchase the live stream will be receiving the ships or a limited release. There is also the question of collector edition mystery code releases. It has been very, very, very, sparse in the things for the mystery code department. Disappointingly so.

The holiday gifts have been released. CCP paid homage to the community with this collection of reminders and nods to community figures. There are jackets for the fashion conscious. They are orange which makes me smile since orange was one of the colors that we were asked to ask for. They have given every active account 20 days of training for a second character on that same account. This will not extend your current account by twenty days. I have no idea what to do with mine but I need to sit down and make some good decisions.

Team Security released a blog with more details about the new policy changes and updates on their banning. It is good to see this information out there as well as some graphs for people to ponder the meaning of.

The feature list for Proteus was released in a Dev Blog from CCP Seagull. It is light weight. CCP’s offices are a ghost town from what we have been told.  I am not in love with the Exequror redesign. Yes its pretty. Yes it is not 100% symmetrical. Yes the old one was weirdly awkward and like two different ships. I liked that. The unique spirit and creativity of the asymmetrical hulls was amazing. I loved that Eve was not completely one way or another. I will continue to complain every time they nerf a hull into symmetry. I consider this a grudging nod to the complaints about asymmetrical hulls and I hope that some of them can be preserved.

We’ve had some of our regular meetings cancelled and some new ones added. The forums have been churning along. CCP Seagull promises some solid plans for null sec at the Summit. I do not know what those plans are.

CCP Punkturis has started a ‘corp little things’ project. For more information please check the thread. She will be discussing and interacting about the topic there. This is something she is doing so I’d like to direct people to it if they wish to comment or participate.

Corbexx and I had our first POS Soundboard. I say first because CCP Nullarbor said that he’d like another one sometime in January. Corbexx and I will make that happen. During the recording we discuss POS current and POS future. I try to cover a lot of ground in these things so we move on topics once we start to chew on them. I am also amused when I ask questions that have been sent to me, asked on the forums, or just to prod the conversation a bit and people think that they are mine. These soundboards are not for the CSM to discuss the topic with and before CCP but for the players to do so. CCP gets to hear me more than they probably want to. I want to use this time for other opinions to get airtime.

Clothing Soundboard, December 15th, 2014
POS Soundboard December 18th, 2014

I recommend giving the POS soundboard a go. Nullarbor discusses the future of reactions. The art team also discusses limitations and such in the Clothing Soundboard.

The holidays are around the corner. After the new year I have my interview for my CSMX campaign. Also the MD/VA/DC community is trying to schedule a get together for the locals for dinner and I guess drinks for those that drink. On my outreach side my next Open Q and A should be around the 10th or 11th.

I’ve been doing a lot of reading and some outreach to gather in points, topics, and opinions for the summit. I will start condensing them down into my Summit Book tomorrow. I haven’t stopped my work on war decs. I just need to find time in the day for all of this stuff. The feedback and information I’ve gotten is great and I’m focused on laying it. I may just write up a large document. We will see. Sometimes organizing this information and thoughts is the hardest part of the process.


  1. Actually, I want to hear more about the new ore anomalies in starter systems.

    1. One complaint the CSM members who has been hanging out in Rookie chat gas been making is that the belts are wiped clear and rookies can't find ore from n their starter system due to rookie volume and vets in barges soaking Veldspar out of the 1.0 systems. This is a solution presented. There are still details being worked out. We have been asking for more ore in the belts or more belts or something.

    2. Why not borrow a page from nullsec ore sites? The moment they are cleared out and everyone warps away, they respawn in a few minutes?
      Yeah, it does mean unlimited veldspar/scordite in the rookie systems, but what's the likelihood of orca/hulk fleets showing up there and causing trouble? More likely, they'd get fresh recruits if the new pilots enjoyed mining, could throw boosts around to those doing the missions, etc...

      If this same sort of idea applied to regular belts as well, we could take that chunk of downtime out as well. If a pilot is there mining (not just ratting), the rocks stay static. Once pilots leave, a timer starts going and every hour or so, the rocks build up more volume (to their maximums) and spawn fresh ones?

    3. Hopefully that is the page being borrowed.

      Having static belts not rely on downtime for repkinishment would also be nice. Some have suggested that all belts move into replenishing anoms.

      My worry is getting day or two old players unto the discovery scanner and from there into the anomolies in an intuitive manner.

    4. "...what's the likelihood of orca/hulk fleets showing up there and causing trouble?"

      And what's the likelihood of a noob staying in belt waiting for a respawn and unadvertedly preventing it? How about downright trolling noobs by "ratting" in belts 23/7 once they are emptied?

      If the purpose is teaching, just let them learn to dig something nobody sells nor buys. Once they learn their lesson, well, moving away from a noob system is a good idea, generally, unless you're in a Orca fleet sweeping veldspar in untanked Hulks.

      Competing with veteran players is a terrible way to teach anything to new players, specially when the only reward they can earn is to win and loss is permanent and harmful to their progression.

      EVE is like this video of 2 professional soccer players scoring a goal against 55 children:

      Just, in EVE the children are slapped after each goal and they PAY for the privilege...

    5. “They have given every active account 20 days of training for a second character on that same account . . . I have no idea what to do with mine but I need to sit down and make some good decisions.”

      Coupled with free medical clones, where to throw the time proved unexpectedly easy for me . . . Dedicated suicide ganker is back on the queue. Unlike the past, there’s no longer reason to limit her expertise to one small sliver.

      CCP has removed a purchase additional training time obstacle. How clever of them.

    6. Doh! Hit 'reply' rather than 'add comment' - I must stop doing that.

    7. Anybody that thinks a vet in a barge/exhumer is currently soaking the rookie veld is completely clueless about mining. The veld asteroids will expire in a fraction of the cycle of a strip miner. That sort of micro-management is pointless and time consuming. When belts respawn through DT in high-sec it is not a complete replenish.

      need to re-think

      Infinite re-spawn however will attract mining crews. Coupled with the increased security of 1.0. Going the pseudo ore route will generate a confusion. Also part of the tutorial is the complete process; harvest, refine and manufacture. Which you can not do with the pseudo ores. That was why I suggested that there rats to specifically target barge/exhumer/orca. The alternative is to bar these ship classes from entering the 1.0 systems.

    8. Why not just allow vets to endlessly mine veldspar if that's what they really want to do?

    9. There are barges being suboptimal. They feel safe. If they want to slurp up tiny rocks that is fine. We just need to make sure there are plenty of those small rocks available for the newbie ventures.

  2. Your moderation of the POS Soundboard was damn good and it thus made for an interesting listen. Thanks Sugar for these updates and the awesome CSM work you have done this year.

  3. That survey is terrible.

    It entirely misses the point, taking everything from an alliance/corporation perspective and completely ignoring the PLAYERS.

    1. Part of the POS discussion was the desire for individual structures divorced from the corporation.

  4. exeq update: not really a fan, this is one of my favourite hulls in the game. having a "get off my lawn" moment don't touch my hull's appearence.

    The combat recon change; my wildest hope is that this concept will be expanded. I for one, welcome more counter-measures to free information, since I feel that the current game provides too much.

  5. I really dont see force recons camping in FW plexes offensively. I do however see them sitting in Large plexes for LP only.

    This just means when Proteus hits I'll be warping to every Large Plex looking for lucky kill :)

    1. Pirate here, gonna camp FW plexes and belts all the time with these, Either sitting in a med waiting to gank whoever comes in (which I will be able to see thanks to my D-scan), or grabbing an alt and sitting them in a frig in a small/novice (or even a belt) acting as bait for me to blap whoever lands on the gate looking for a fun frig/dessi fight.


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