Monday, June 9, 2014

What Do You Dream of Flying?

I'm watching an argument that I started and then set Silva off to continue when it got over my head. There has to be some advantage to this CSM thing and so far my favorite has been throwing other CSM members at people. It may not be the intended use for this office but I can say, with great pleasure, that I am bringing the CSM to more people.

The argument started simply and asked why I wasn't offended by the way some null sec alliances treat their renters. I responded that the renters choose the alliances freely. As someone who does not play in null sec and does not want to play in null sec this makes a lot of sense to me. However, having been pissed off more than once when someone told me that low sec corporations simply failed to achieve anything in null sec I am not unfamiliar with the assumption that everyone in Eve want's null sec.

But that was the start of the conversation. When it dove deep into the concept and reasons of renting I tag teamed Silva into the conversation. I then watched Silva apply actual knowledge and reasoning to the argument. However,  the line that struck me, out of all of them, was:
"Or is it that too much players who start the game with the purpose of building and flying capital ships at some point will never be able to do so, and that they will change something fundamental about that."
The argument was the restrictions rental alliances put on their renters when it comes to building super capitals. The person discussing this (it had dropped down from an argument) was not making the distinction between capital ships and super capital ships. Super capitals can only be built in sov null. And I'm not even thinking about the argument of renters and alliances and the broken nature of Sov.

I wanted to know:
Did you come to Eve to fly super capital ships?
I didn't. I came to Eve to fly vast, industrial machines. I've long, longed for a Rorqual. I can buy one now but I cannot quite convince myself to drop the ISK. I soured on battleships very early in the game when I found out how skill intensive they were and slow. So slow.

And I have carriers. I have a dreadnought. But I don't dream about flying them. I don't fly assault frigates because they are cheap. I fly assault frigates because they are fun to fly. And I have to admit that conceptually, the Rorqual is an amazing ship. I hope that we can make it even more amazing. I built an Orca because I wanted one and thought building it would be amazing.

So, no. I didn't come to Eve to fly super capital ships. Or capital ships. Maybe battleships... but mostly I wanted to fly industrial ships. And over time I've fallen in love with other ships. Curse. Machariel. Sleipnir. Hurricane. But never, ever, have I said, "I can't wait to fly a Nyx!"

22 comments:

  1. I dream of flying the Claymore... I fell in love with it while watching one of the Alliance tournaments, and I feel the need to fly it. For practical reasons it is way down the list of my training queue... But I dream of flying that boosting, uber tanking, PvP monster of a ship.
    Flying that as an FC is symbolic of a sort of PvP success for me... I may never get there, but it's a dream!!!

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    1. Nope... The Claymore is sexier.

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  2. As a drone fan, I always had a wish to fly a guardian-vexor. Which I managed to do at one FF one year (on the test server). Mind you even if I did have the iskies, I doubt I'd ever undock it.... ;)

    In more achievable terms, Nyx and Avatar (now how predictable is that?) but in all honesty, unless there is the context in which to use them, it's very unlikely to happen. Likewise with the various black ops ships.

    Guess thats a result of having over 100mil SPs and being able to fly most things already though.

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    1. I think, because of its name, the Guardian Vexor is one of the first ships rare ships most of us stumble upon.

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    2. I can remember absolutely drooling after the Ishtar for an absolute age, and had been a Vexor pilot for quite a while before that. Think I came across by looking at the variations on the base hull iirc. 10 drones! I mean 10!!!! ;)

      Very much doubt we're going to see its like again given CCP appears to be looking to optimize/reduce server loading.

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  3. I came to eve to be an industrialist. To find somewhere mildly dangerous.

    I want to be a medium sized fish, in whatever pool I can find. I immediately gravitated towards Battleships, the Dominix is my 'goto' ship.

    I did not come to 'bend my knee' to anyone. Given the restrictions that rental alliances have, Sov null is *not* for me. Given that super caps should not be flown without significant support, I suspect that super caps are not for me either.

    C1-C4 wormhole space seems to suit fine. Maybe later a C5-6.

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  4. I feel the same way, I started flying in the months before the Orca was released and it was my big goal, to the point where I had to build it myself as a few month old character. The big supercapitals have never really held any appeal to me, too much logistics and they really don't seem like a good fit for lowsec where I spend most of my time. Like you Sugar, the Rorqual has always seemed like a cool thing to have, but I haven't ever seen the utility for it in a lowsec corp. Just like you, I prefer the smaller ships for their maneuverability, and the Assault Frigates in particular for their ability to punch above their size. I've yet to successfully use anything larger than a Destroyer... :|

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  5. Oh Sugar Kyle, you make me feel so old.

    DireNecessity isn’t my first character. She just happens to be the public face of an interconnected group of characters. (I’m sure this true of most of us.) My oldest character started as a dedicated Hi-Sec mission runner meaning the original goal was Marauder (specifically Vargur) and when he finally worked his way into one it was everything he dreamed of – a mission munching monster.

    Curiously, about the time he stepped into the Vargur my Eve interests changed and he ended up shuffling over to various support roles. Somebody had to pilot the freighter, somebody had to pilot the Orca, somebody had to spin the Command Links . . . Invariably that somebody is him. My once upon a time star of the show now spends his time schlepping for others.

    It’s a strange to observe the shift from “I’d adore to do X” to “You really ought to be doing Y.”

    DireNecessity

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  6. Never had the plant to fly a capital ship, let alone a supercap! Always saw myself as the hardy frigate / cruiser pilot. Tbh, I can't stand battleships, too darn slow...

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  7. I dream of flying a genuine twin role miner pvper. Bit like a tengu ratter can usually just kill an attacker if someone tries to gank you.

    But it would be cool to just chill in a belt occasionally stopping to murder an inty gang or a small blops gang.

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  8. I can't really recall what I came to eve to fly, quite likely it was nothing specific. Within eve however as long as I can remember I always dreamed of having a Hel, ideally to fly but I'd settle for a pos boondoggle if I'm being realistic about it. This unfortunately hasn't stopped the actual caps I've flown and trained for from all being Gallente or Amarr for practicality reasons.

    I once also had a short lived dream of building (and mining) my own super. Unfortunately for the mining part not to be horrible isk/hr and seem crazy I had to plex 10 accounts. It turns out paying six billion isk per month for plex with flakky income sources due to the corps inability to deal with that much ore isn't a fun play style.

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  9. exploration frigates...finally, i class of ships that fit my playstyle. low sec mining.

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  10. I didn't know enough about EVE when I started to dream of flying any particular ship. I was happy to learn and move up the skill tree. The first ship I really 'wanted' to fly was the Noctis... I can't explain why, but I really loved that butt-fugly bug swandinving thru space... still do.

    Then, one day, something like 2.5 to 3 years ago, some friends and I were hanging out in Dodi and this questions came up... and I discovered I caouldn't name one.... But while we were talking a Macharial undocked and I said if I could have any one ship, that would be it... but I was months from flying it and probably, the shitty way I made, and the incredibly fast way I spent ISK, years from affording one.

    So a good friend, on the spur of the moment, bought me one... cripes. I was months, many months from flying it... and took even longer cause I dint wanna ever lose it... I mean, whatta gift right? But, I have flown it here and there, just not a 'lot' and the one I have is the very same hull I got that day.

    But, as for Supers and Titans? Nope. Once I learned about null and the nullsec shitlords and Sov etc., etc. ... well, I have no desire whatsoever to be involved in that for of serfdom. And Caps? Well, we have built a few, for ratting, etc., support in the hole. We built a Nidhoggur in our old C2, sold it when we moved, and built a Chimera in the C3, sold it and the hole when we joined SYJ.

    But for myself... no. My game is Logi and Ewar and small gang and wormholes... I am skilling now into the Matarii Command Ships and, aside from Caps, that's all of em. The plan then is to Master all (butt Caps). So, while we can use (and even need Capitols in C5 & 6s) I personally have no desire whatsoever to ever fly a capitol.

    But... what do I want to fly? Hmmmmm.... new Black Ops, new cloakies for W-space, new Logi, new Ewar... and of course, new DPS ships from frigs to BSes... just give me more variety.

    Oh and Sugar? One for the Little Things List... Regardless of who made them, Black Ops ships should be, you know.... Black. The Panther, the Matarii Blops BS (Thukker design, Phoon hull) NEEDS to be BLACK dammit!! Not Desert Camo FFS...

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  11. I came to EVE to fly the Wolf, immensely inspired by Prometheus Exenthal's video "Redemption." Plus, it's just a sexy ship. (Autos over arties though; it's a better brawler.) I've always considered myself a frigate pilot from the minute I undocked my first Rifter to help keep the miners in my first corp's highsec system safe from the 0.5 rats. (Srsly, they're tough on newbie Ventures.) Fast and fragile is how I like my ships in EVE. When I was in null and they demanded that we learn to fly Nagalfars, I knew immediately that it wasn't for me and started plotting my escape. lol The idea of being a big target, immobilized and vulnerable without serious support, makes my skin crawl. :/

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  12. I remember clearly the excitement of my first month or two of eve. The career agents kept shoving new ships at me and modules and every hour I felt progress. It went from reaper to reaper with two guns to slasher to rifter with a burst somewhere along the way that was quickly discarded and then on thrasher and after much saving a stabbed that I was scarred to lose so I didn't fly it much. More thrashers and then a cane loaded with shield power relays and shield extenders and then a typhoon that I couldn't make do much of anything so back to the cane and then the amazing maelstrom which brought 1400mm happiness and then the progress slowed and has been hardly perceptible since. I do remember the excitement.

    While I don't think the supers are a requirement perhaps they are a possibility to squeeze another year out of that gratifying progession. To do that simply remove the so requirement from construction and allow them to be docked in npc stations. Oh and one more thing add a predator to keep it in balance. Perhaps a battleship hull that mounts a single capital weapon which can only be bused within Bastian (siege timer is too long.) In much the same way as bombers and attack battle cruisers mount larger weapons than their hull normally fires. The main problem with supers is the lack of a predator. Add the predator and the distribution could be more common.

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  13. The Kestrel. Seems silly, but it's always been one of my favorite ships. Today I buy them instead of a shuttle just so I have an excuse to fly one around, then sell it or abandon it in place.

    After that it was BS's in various flavors. My fav is the Apoc/Navy Apoc. Nothing better than a screenshot/vid of a fleet of Apocs dropping from warp ready to fight for the Empire. I wish there were a Khanid version that shot missiles.

    There /was/ a point where I wanted a Thanatos and a Nyx, but a short stint as a capship pilot (Caldari capships, no less) cured that.

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    1. I completely understand the Kestrel love - it has always been one of my favorites as well, and it was the reason that one of my early goals was to get into a Manticore (back when they looked like a black Kestrel).

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  14. Showing my age, for me it was the Thorax. In Eve Magazine there was an article about how a team of mainly (only) Thoraxes (Thoraxi?) chewed up the competition in an alliance tournament. Just had to fly a Thorax. From there is was the Megatron! What a bad-ass looking ship! These days I can fly most anything under capital class. Though I have characters that can fly capitals it was never a dream for me to fly them like the Thorax and the Megatron.

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  15. Super caps are the last thing I ever wanted to fly in EVE. I like my ships small, fast, and agile. I'm a frig pilot at heart - interceptors, assault frigs, stealth bombers, even T1s; they're all fun to fly. I've only ever flown destroyers as salvage ships, before there was a such thing as the Noctis (this is mainly because when I first started and skilled up, there were no destroyers, and later when they were added, no missile dessie for a Caldari pilot like me). I'll fly a cruiser occasionally, but even that is pushing my preferred size limit. I fly battleships only when necessary. I have no intention of ever training any cap ship skills, with the possible exception of freighters on a hauler alt. I came to EVE for small and fast, and frigates fill that role just fine for me.

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  16. Heh. Elitism in the different ship hulls. ;)

    I still love T1 frigs. The Rifter, especially now everyone thinks it's not the same, I've heard people even say it sucks.

    Let them think the incoming Rifter is ezpz. At least they run less.

    I love Rifter.

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    1. I love flying my Condor in FW sites, and people not taking it seriously because they think it's just another stabbed plexer - the surprise when I engage, point, and shoot back is priceless.

      It's fun let them underestimate you, isn't it?

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