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And Shaming....

Why is one of the most frustrating words. It can be played against someone to great aggravation. It can also be the gateway to understanding. It is a door step that I stand upon. I'm a curious person. I am somewhat insatiable. I absorb knowledge about things I don't even like because I enjoy learning.

On twitter, I found myself plying the Why? card. I stopped myself because it looked aggressive and picky. It is easy for a simple bit of curiosity to dig in like a thorn. that is not going to get me anywhere. I want to know the answer but I cannot find out if I aggravate the asker.

There is a lot about Eve's social opinion and activity that I seek to understand. Smack talk is one of my most common topics. I struggle to understand it and try not to place my value judgement on it. I do not understand it but I know that I cannot judge people who indulge in it by my standards. Their standards are not mine.

These social rifts abound. For some, I am evil incarnate because I have an outlaw security status. Others would classify me as a bad person because I associate with gankers and I would defend those gankers to the end even thought I do not wish to gank or grief.

It may be that I stand on two sides of the same opinion and that I am not meant to occupy two places at once. The discussion, as it started, was about someone bringing a Recon to a frigate fight to get out of said fight.

I dislike the things I dislike as much as anyone else does. I dislike being Falconed or Blackbirded out of a fight. It is a terrible mechanic and awful to suffer through. But, I don't call the person who did said Blackbirding or Falconing out. I may, if I have a choice, simply chose not to engage them the next time because they do not play on a level that I find enjoyable.

Just as people call 7-2 blobbers because we will hunt in packs. They invalidate all of my boys who are solo machines because they do not shun the fleet flying that makes 7-2 what it is as a corporation. They do not have to like us but I tire of the superior sneers from those who 'play Eve right'.

I do not understand why any group decides and declares that another groups play style is wrong, something to be ridiculed, or mocked. I suspect a lot of that is me and my view of the world. I may not have the moral fortitude to hold onto ideals well enough.

About two months ago I started writing a draft called, "Should Eve be fair?" I've never moved far past its start because it is a hard topic to approach and a title that may be to open. I do not think that anyone expects Eve to be fair except for the new and the naive. But, so often we react as if somehow it should be fair. Or, social pressure is thrown at the person to make them conform. Conformity of ideals, habits, and actions should come from a group that has an established focus. Such as a corporation. If I am a special snowflake in 7-2, I will be removed from the corporation for not adding value. It is something I agreed to. But, I'd never take that and tell someone that they had to behave as I/we did/do or that they should at any point of time.

For some people dying is losing. In a game with no true winner lose clause people make them up and apply value to them. I hate when someone says we lost a fight because of ISK efficiency. I personally hate that metric. But, I bite my tongue because that is their metric and they have their rights to it. I do not understand it but I accept it. I cannot ask or expect them to take my path upon themselves. It is not my game that they are playing. I will not shame them because I hold different values. After all, they are not playing my game and I am not playing theirs.

-Brought to you by the tired, grumpy Sugar.


  1. Another quality thought provoking post about a topic successful players should strive to come to terms with.

    I revel in the fact that in eve we can communicate with others however we see fit with less social restrictions than most RL situations. Smack talk is really just a tool to influence the behaviors of others in a favorable way to yourself. It takes many forms and creative use of it can be very effective. I mostly use it to help get kills (never after the kill, I don't enjoy being a dick after the fact), but really any time you want to influence another's behavior for any number of reasons, you can try to push their emotional buttons. A good player can shield themselves from this tactic by recognizing it as simply a tactic, and not getting emotional (or if the smacktalker is just a dick, not caring).

    So I think Rixx tried to explain himself, in that he is smack talking you guys for using the rapier because he would prefer to live and fight in a galaxy where others feel ashamed for such tactics. He'd prefer an eve where a gritty fun frigate fight doesn't end that way so he's shaming you in the hopes that it will influence the environment to suit his play style. But that's all; he knows it's eve and you guys can do what you want, he just hoped you guys would want to play his game. And I think he explained as much in the tweets at the end of that exchange. His mocking and ridicule was an attempt to influence the eve environment so that people would be less inclined to pull out a rapier or falcon to win an an otherwise lost fight.

    Personally I think the concept of fairness only has subjective meaning, and doesn't actually exist.

    1. It wasn't ours :) But I consider Twitter to be a public sounding board so I will step into a conversation.

    2. Yep I'm inept. I typed "twitters" before realizing the word is "tweets"

  2. Anything that is built on social structures is inherently unfair. The very nature of a structure requires a foundation for your roof to sit on. In New Eden, for other capsuleers to succeed in their goals, some must fail.

    That said, at least we can provide equal opportunities. Everyone starts off in a rookie ship, and everyone has the capacity to bring a Rapier to a losing frigate fight. That's fair.

    Everything after that is just how far you're willing to go to accomplish your goal.

  3. "After all, they are not playing my game and I am not playing theirs." Actually you do. When you are on the same gate or want the same wormhole or sov or market order, you play WITH them, like it or not. They are smack talking, because they are not happy playing with you. Because of "blobbing" or some other form of being stronger than them.

    1. I disagree. I never said I am not playing with them. We are still not playing the same game of Eve Online. That is part of what makes Eve a world concept with players living in it.

      Unlike arenas or such things are do not enter into combat with a bunch of enforced restrictions to even the playing field unless we choose to do so.

      These tournaments that keep being run are people playing a game by the same rules and therefore sharing their game. Out in the wilds of aeve you as a ganker have expierenced how you are focusing on a different rule set from the gankee.

  4. What don't you understand about isk efficiency being a facet of judging the outcome of a fight?

    1. Not a facet but the judgment. It is a measure I find distasteful for measuring how well one is doing especially when a group focuses on risky rights because the engagement is a goal.

      I understand it in the way I understand many things I disagree with.

    2. It's a meaningless number. ISK an resources are *not* a limited commodity within EVE. And ISK efficiency means very little as such.

      If you fight a SOV war and you end up owning the space, and force your enemy to give up for the time being, but your ISK efficiency is 5% did you loose? No, you didn't, you achieved your goal after all.

      Besides the way ISK efficiency is calculated by killboards is retarded, if 100 people get on a 40 billion ISK Nyx they all get 40 billion added to their efficiency calculation ergo the total value of killboard ISK is now 40x100=4000, but 4000 billion of ISK did not in fact die in game.

      If or not you 'win' a thing in EVE is detriment by whether or not you achieved a goal you set for yourself or for your group. It is therefore totally possible in EVE for a fight to have 2 winners or in fact 2 losers. So ISK efficiency is only a facet if you decide it is (and you're bad at math or understanding the impact of financial loss in an economy that has limitless long term resources, there's a reason inflation is so much bigger in New Eden then in the real world).

    3. tl;dr: it's all psych warfare, or "meta-gaming" if you prefer. Just as people "PvP with words" in the forums, on twitter, and on these blogs, lobbying CCP for nerfing this, buffing that, eliminating ganking, whatever -- it's all the same diff, really.
      I started reading Ragnar Redbeard's "Might Is Right", upon a recommendation. I think when I'm done I'll have some very interesting things to write about it, the nature of RL, and the nature of EVE. ;-) I'll come get ya when I'm done. lol


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