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Rambling: Thanks, But No Thanks

They say that respect must be earned. It can be given but not demanded. Appreciation. Affection. Friendship. All of these things are powerful but none of them mean respect. I was in a very deep conversation with someone trying to explain a desync in my perception of a social interaction vs theirs.

There was a conversation not long ago when someone expressed confusion over why their logistics people continued to express a feeling of not being appreciated when everyone appreciated them. People loved them. People thanked them. Yet, they always expressed a general frustration that what they did wasn't appreciated when it was. Being a logistics person and feeling that exact same thing I did one of my favorite tasks and asked myself what was actually bothering me.

I realized that it was a little case of, "no one understands me" or as Louis Armstrong sang, "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen." Now and then I see people ask me to haul things for them as a casual, "yeah so get this to Jita thanks!" and off they go to have fun. Often times they comment that they cannot stand hauling and that they'd rather engage in various acts of permanent self harm.

On one hand there is the thank you and the appreciation. On the other hand there is a thick ball of negativity about the thing. These two start to cancel each other out. Although someone is glad that the logistics person is handling the logistics as they walk away they say, "That is a terrible thing and I'd never do it." While thanked the logistics person walks away with a negative hanging over their head.

How often are various tasks and duties discussed as not worth it?  "Don't do that, its terrible. It isn't worth time. It isn't worth money." The very saying becomes the problem. Expressed emotions and opinions can still affect people. Its secondary. It is not a situation where the logistics person feels that the corporation does not respect them and laughs at them behind their back. It is the feeling that their task is not appreciated or respected and by association they may start to absorb some of that negativity.

My personal demon, solo PvP will be my example here. I spend a lot of time and energy trying to be a good fleet member. I try to be an active PvPer. I want people to be pleased when I join the fleet. Yet statements about solo PvP being the best, most technical, necessary for someone to truly understand their limitations, eat at me. At no point do I think that those speaking are saying, "Sugar is really a rather useless weight we should snip to free ourselves." But as solo is praised and even a fleet of three people is called a blob with eye rolling the devaluation vs the valuation becomes unbalanced.

There are some things in game that are worshiped and praised. There are others that are despised. "All that matters is PvP," one person once said, casually, as they undocked to throw themselves into a fleet. At that particular time I was tri-boxing logistics and industry. I was also doing a task for that person because they hated the task and it would never get done. Rolling around with billions of assets in space across three accounts doing several tasks that directly benefited that person, I was hit by the butthurt bat. Yet, they always thank me. They always tell me that they appreciate me and couldn't get by without me. But the continued and constant devaluation of the things that I did still ate at me.

It is secondary absorption. I know I am appreciated. What I do is not respected. That I do it is appreciated. But they would never do it. The worth of doing it is so small for them that they'd go without. Its unintentional but it soaks through and starts to stain things. Eventually, people express their discontent. It seems to appear out of nowhere but it has been there all of the time.  It is not just a matter of respecting the person that does the work. It is also about a base level of respect for the work and effort that goes into what is so casually appreciated and casually disparaged.

Demanding that someone respect something that they don't isn't going to happen. Respect is a choice that they make. I have entered into most of my worst arguments in Eve by expressing my distaste or disdain for an action and having someone take offense or defend it. None of this was directed at the person but their defense for what they invested their time in was what the argument was founded in. In many ways, I find the laments of those that feel unappreciated for some tasks, to be similar.

Note: I don't often add once I've posted but when I do it is to make sure that for clarity sakes the topic being discussed and my personal feelings are not confused by anyone. I have this horrid fear that someone is going to think I'm all angry and resentful at THC or 7-2. I'm not. :) I just like to wrestle with topics even if they are not my personal issue or crusade. After all, we can't all post ship fits or discuss politics...

P.S. Note: Logistics as in Hauling is this topic... :P


  1. Damn, we love our logi. Its the first ship reimbursed if lost, and we often give them out for free to people who volunteer for the duty (always complete with drones for whoring). DPS is a dime a dozen, but good logi pilots are worth their weight in gold. Seriously, you ALWAYS respect your logi pilots.

    1. Ahh, but the respect problem isn't the person it is the task. I know that everyone I work with appreciates the fact that they do not have to do the logistics. But ask people how they feel about task and examine those words that they use.

    2. Oh no, it's just as much the person as the task. There are good logi pilots and bad ones. You know that guy in fleet who can never get on the primary? Yeah, he's pretty shit at logi too. Good logi pilots are showered with love. You'll here stuff in comms like "Oh, so-and-so is on logi tonight? Woo, we might actually make it out of this alive!"

      I don't know what your corp is like, but when we were forming fleet last night we asked for 6 volunteers for frig logi duty, including a free ship (they're worth only 2.5 mil), and we had to turn people away. It's probably the most respected and important part of our fleets when we opt for it, and we heap a lot of recognition on the pilots who do well with it, at least as much as our top killers and damage dealers.

    3. Logistics = Hauling :P not Logistics = Repping :D

    4. Oh! Yeah, no one likes those hauler guys. Bunch a pinko carebear hippies. :p

  2. Man, great post. I absolutely share your sentiment. As director in a Wormhole corp, I have spent countless hours and days scouting routes, hauling fuel, setting up towers and checking new recruit APIs. Then some snot-nosed recruit lectures me that WH life is boring since there is no constant pew pew. A good corp though will appreciate the background players more than those guys who log in, look for fights and if they can't find one, log off and play WoT. Your contributions are not forgotten :)

  3. This kind of thing happens all the time in nullsec if one is an industry type. The pew pew crowd loves the ships and mods and ammo provided, but absolutely hates the thought of even having non-pew pew share the same comms. At least that's been the majority of my null experience.

  4. While there's definitely a portion of this which is because of the warrior master race philosophy which has, tbh, afflicted real-world cultures since the beginning of time, I wonder how many of them also haven't tried moving stuff with a freighter... because I thought hauling was severely not-OK until I had one. That amount of cargo space is incredibly liberating.


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