Thursday, August 29, 2013

The Angry Oddelulf Newbie

Oddelulf's angry newbie has me absolutely fascinated. He has managed to get into bickering wars with Ueberlisk now. This is on top of his rageing at Diz and Dave. They've been sharing logs of his ranting and rages. He is very, very angry at us for coming into Oddelulf and killing his unarmed, mining ships. He seems mad at Ueber for living there. He is also angry that people violence spaceships in low sec.


I have a handful of things I've been working on inspired by his rages and local rants. He is like a muse. A rabid, Tasmanian devil of a muse. Today, after reading yet another tirade about the cowardace of my boys, I thought to an image posted on twitter by @quantumcats the twitter feed for the Quantum Cats Syndicate. I know that they are a PvP group over in faction warfare. Not my personal crew but I found deep amusement at this tweet.

There are many subtexts to the joke. They are certainly poking fun at themselves. The one that I focused on is the social aspect of killing things. That is what amused me the most and what the angry Oddelulf newbie does not understand. He may not even comprehend it. And as I looked at the texture and shape of the subject I realized that it is rather hard to explain and define.
Angry Oddelulf Newbie > that's pretty low...3 losers against one unarmed ship, can't score much higher than that
Angry Oddelulf Newbie > I bet it makes you feel great. I bet you brag to your friends "I killed an unarmed ship!"
The angry newbie's points are very common ones. I have a feeling he feels witty. He was flying a Procurer as he often does (he has not learned to fit warp core stabs on it so we fit more points but that is another discussion...) and he was killed. That particular fleet was a cruiser fleet puttering around. Someone notices a Procurer on scan, announces it in the channels, and people start to figure out where it is so that it can be killed.

The next question is, "Are we proud of killing this ship and think that we are amazing PvPers for that?" While I've addressed the question before it does not hurt to mention it again. "No." Killing that unarmed mining ship has nothing to do with feeling like a bad ass PvPer. There is always the chance that it is bait. Procurer's make fantastic bait ships. But, unable to resist the boys will almost always poke it to see. In this case it was a newbie who lost his ice mining vessel quickly.

At times I get a sense that the angry Oddelulf newbie thinks that we spend our time dancing around a bonfire in body paint and feathers, chanting and singing to our pagan gods as we display pieces of the Procurer's shattered shell. The concept that we only kill his ship because we can do no better makes sense if we were out shooting things to prove something about prowess. But we're not. The boys hunt because it is what they do. It is who they are.  If he had not become so angry and determined to live in Oddelulf and continue to ice mine he would only be another kill on the killboard.

Eve is spoken of as a social game. Playing it alone often (I will not say always) leads to people leaving the game. Finding a social group often (I will not say always) leads to people staying and enjoying themselves more. The game speaks to numbers on many levels. People find themselves enjoying playing with the people that they have formed a social circle with. That socialization leads them to do activities together. People mission, mine, and PvP together.

When the fleet catches and kills a mining ship there is a general, "good job" that goes around. The good job is not because they fought tooth and nail, avoiding the darting blades of mining drones and the intense searing heat of the strip miners. It is about the hunt and the kill. The socialization of it. Holding a kill or a pod is not about feeling good about beating up a helpless pod. It is about sharing what you do. Its inclusion. It is having fun. It isn't about killboard stats. If anyone pays attention they'd know that the more people on the kill the less the kill counts by the killboards. Socializing the kill damages the killboard stats. Pressing the pewpew buttons with friends is fun.

Of course I cannot stop the comments. I won't change the minds of the world with my musings. I doubt those that ask, deep down, really think that we're amazed with ourselves. I say doubt because I cannot say I'm sure. I've seen enough smack talk and bragging over people killing frigates with instalocking T3 camps to not doubt the ability of a ship kill to boost moral.

But moral is the groups interaction. It is lovely to call out and have the entire online corp empty out of the station to come and help or come and share. People make pleased sounds as an entire fleet undocks and what was one person is now nine. That often metamorphoses into a kitchen sink roam and many fantastic fights build up from there. It is not because people are scared. Or, to be precise, my people. I know of groups that will not undock without higher numbers then another. And groups that will not undock to near other's home systems. I must caution myself in my enthusiasm and remember that not all of Eve is my social group.

But, for us it is socialization. It is called kill whoring for a reason. The call is, "come and whore on this kill". It is a social cry to come and share. The request is, "let me whore on this kill". It is not, "Let me buff my killboard to levels of 133t badassery thanks to this pod that seven other people shall also join in upon and the terror and awe of my personal skill that it will invoke."

I often struggle with the duality of my life in low sec. I understand that we make people unhappy. I also understand that the people I fly with are fantastic. The people that we kill often do not think that. I can not judge them for that. It is hard to turn around and go, "You are such an amazing person" to your attacker. While that response may not be uncommon inside of our social circle it must be noted that inside of it we function on similar levels of play style.

So. Yes. We kill things to kill things. We do it because we enjoy it. It is not always about challenge and fleet but about pewing all the things with enthusiasm and people that you like. It all sounds wonderful to me but the angry newbie does not want to hear it. And how angry is the Angry Oddelulf Newbie?
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> Hey look, it's Dave Loser
Dave Lash > lol
C'tan stormbringer > eesh, did you piss in his cheerios or something?
Dave Lash > well....sorta...he likes to mine in low sec...which is of course very dangerous
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> so what kind of douche baggery are you engaged with now?
Dave Lash > just flying around...killed some carriers earlier today
Havaclue > not so dangerous anymore.
Dave Lash > now just looking for dumb miners
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> so you can feel all big and bad killing unarmed ships? I know how challenging that is, you must be exhausted.
Dave Lash > carriers were not unarmed mate
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> no, but mining vessels are, dumbass
Arsikere > /emote sigh
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> your mom must be proud, as she empties your shit bucket and brings you more hot pockets.
Dave Lash > man you're a mad little bear
Dave Lash > I didn't talk about your mom at all
Dave Lash > meanie
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> not mad, just calling a douche bag a douche bag.
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> there's a difference
Dave Lash > souinds like mad to me
Angry Oddelulf Newbie> that's because you have an infantile mentality
The mad scale reads: 11

24 comments:

  1. yep keep killing him til he figures out what eve is about. 'slow learner'

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  2. I found that telling "we were padding our killboard" would be helpful, even if not exactly true. I use it now in highsec and works.

    The miner wants ISK, that's why he mines. He doesn't understand you. If he'd be reading this post, he'd dismiss it as lies.

    If you'd tell "hey, I just got 30M from your Procurer to my killboard, thank you", he would understand that. You wouldn't be alien to him, you would be after ISK like him, just on a different meter (killboard instead of wallet). He would still not like you but consider a competitor in a game (like the other miner who took the rich Hemorphite ores from the anomaly, leaving only veldspar).

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    Replies
    1. But I don't care about my killboard stats. Trying to connect to him through a lie doesn't seem like an effective way to communicate with him. I want him to believe what I do not believe myself. I don't think in terms of 'this ship = x isk on my killboard' anymore then I think that I shouldn't fly a Jaguar because it is a frigate and I won't get top DPS or final blows.

      I don't expect him to like me. We do kill him after all. It is rather hard to reach out to the people that you kill. The successful ones tend to reach out to you first because they do not possess the blindness to assume that their destruction was only because you suck.

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    2. OK, then maybe giving him good advice would help. His fits are horrible (assuming it's him: http://www.thc2.org/kb/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=13695).

      At first he is flying a Procurer. Procurers don't belong to lowsec, their tank worth nothing if no Concord (or blues) come to the rescue. He should be flying a retriever.

      He shouldn't fit warp stabs, the killers just fit 2x scram and he is done. He should fit for yield and stay aligned while mining, warping out when anyone arrives.

      Or, he should be in highsec.

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    3. Gevlon, your assessment is very accurate, and Sugar is being realistic. However, one thing you may not know is that with the last upgrade they did some considerable improvements to the Proc, and the Retriever pales by comparison. The ship I should get is a Skiff, but that costs more than I want to lose if I get ganked. With a Proc, I only spend about $28 mil, where a Skiff is $58 mil before any fittings. With my Proc I can make several hundred million ISK before I get popped, and when I do, I'm only out $28 mil. It's all business, and my Procs are a small investment that yields a high return.

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    4. I'd not considered whether or not procurers were really the safest option, I just assumed they were, and tried ice mining in lowsec in one. I might not do that in future.

      The point is, though, it doesn't matter how much the procurer's been improved - the extra tank doesn't get you anything in lowsec, except a few more seconds before you wind up in your pod. Unless you have a friend/alt in the belt in a PvP ship (or three...) that's just a few more seconds to ponder the inevitability of your own destruction. And if you do, then your procurer's just bait.

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  3. http://www.thc2.org/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16132

    )))

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  4. I melted a wormhole miner yesterday and even though the fight wasn't hard, you're right that you never know if they are acting as bait. I've been baited so many times but I almost always still take the bait. I can't control myself unless it's blatantly obvious.

    If he doesn't want to die, then he needs to find a new place to mine, or learn to pay attention to local and get to a safe spot when you all come in. Until then, keep killing him.

    Einstein said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

    If he keeps doing the same thing over and over again, but expects you to stop killing him, he's insane.

    :)

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    Replies
    1. Are you assuming I do the same thing over and over? I never expect anyone to stop killing me. Looks to me like you don't have enough information to make that kind of assessment. The only way to learn is to put yourself in situations where you can learn. Can't learn anything by turning tail and running. You people may see it as stupid, but in fact I am gathering critical intel. Things aren't always as they seem, and making judgments based on incomplete information is just plain ignorant.

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  5. What do you mean I'm not a painted pagan worshipping dark pagan gods? Why would you say such things? :'(

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  6. Not sure if you're talking about Havaclue or Steel Olgidar. I don't suppose it matters much.

    I have a firm policy against sharing kills and toothbrushes. Neither makes much sense.

    The tears were adequate. Anytime you make someone so butthurt he whines about you in local, you're doing something right. But I think 11/10 is quite the overbid.

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    Replies
    1. We have such different opinions. I will happily share every kill that I have with my corp and blues. I also find his rage scale hitting an 11 by my terms.

      Differences. :)

      Delete
  7. This is why I live in wormholes. Can ignore local, dismiss raging, live in blissful silence, follow the eightfold way. No incline not followed by decline, no hill not followed by valley. Attachment to material things only brings pain. The death of your pod or mine is just part of the natural cycle of life in Eve. Why be upset?

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  8. Wow, this article is full of inaccurate observations, as well as some things you just don't understand. Please allow me to elaborate.

    "Oddelulf's angry newbie has me absolutely fascinated. He has managed to get into bickering wars with Ueberlisk now. This is on top of his rageing at Diz and Dave. They've been sharing logs of his ranting and rages. He is very, very angry at us for coming into Oddelulf and killing his unarmed, mining ships. He seems mad at Ueber for living there. He is also angry that people violence spaceships in low sec."

    First of all, I'm not angry. There is no rage. Sure, I protest, but it's not anger. You can use all the colorful verbs and adjectives you want, doesn't make it true. I'm not mad that Ueberlisk lives there, that doesn't bother me at all, but apparently my being there bothers him. And the statement "angry that people violence spaceships in low sec" is not only poor English, but it is simply a manufactured statement by you in an effort to cast me in a bad light.

    "I have a handful of things I've been working on inspired by his rages and local rants. He is like a muse. A rabid, Tasmanian devil of a muse. Today, after reading yet another tirade about the cowardace of my boys, I thought to an image posted on twitter by @quantumcats...."

    Wow, your description is extremely.....manufactured. Your use of verbs and adjectives make me appear as though I'm someone else. You did such a good job, I was thinking you worked for FOX news.

    To be continued.....

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  9. "That is what amused me the most and what the angry Oddelulf newbie does not understand. He may not even comprehend it. And as I looked at the texture and shape of the subject I realized that it is rather hard to explain and define."

    Of course I don't comprehend it, because you pirates would kill me but not loot or salvage my stuff. I would understand it if you least killed for profit, but you don't. I know there are incentives for engaging in the activities you do, but I don't see how there is much profit in killing a Proc when there are so many other better payouts available. I would like to compliment you on your observation "And as I looked at the texture and shape of the subject I realized that it is rather hard to explain and define." I hope one day I can understand, but for now I don't. Oh, and I do have 3 warp core stabilizer II on my proc (that's all that will fit) but it doesn't matter if the pirate has 2 good scramblers, they cancel out my stabilizers. Were you not paying attention?

    "At times I get a sense that the angry Oddelulf newbie thinks that we spend our time dancing around a bonfire in body paint and feathers, chanting and singing to our pagan gods as we display pieces of the Procurer's shattered shell."

    Wow, you been smoking the peace pipe there mister? What a very colorful description. Fortunately, that's a fantasy that lives only in your head.

    "The concept that we only kill his ship because we can do no better makes sense if we were out shooting things to prove something about prowess."

    I never claimed that to be a concept, that was a sarcastic conversation where I was asked to "rate their service" after I was killed. I rated the service as "2.fuckyou". That's when I said "Angry Oddelulf Newbie > that's pretty low...3 losers against one unarmed ship, can't score much higher than that". Therefore, you have cherry picked the information and have taken the whole statement out of context. You sure you don't work for FOX news?

    "But we're not. The boys hunt because it is what they do. It is who they are. If he had not become so angry and determined to live in Oddelulf and continue to ice mine he would only be another kill on the killboard."

    As I told you, there's no anger. However, I am determined to continue working in Oddelulf. Ice mining is only a small part of what I do.

    To be continued again......

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  10. "So. Yes. We kill things to kill things. We do it because we enjoy it. It is not always about challenge and fleet but about pewing all the things with enthusiasm and people that you like. It all sounds wonderful to me but the angry newbie does not want to hear it. And how angry is the Angry Oddelulf Newbie?......"

    There's nothing angry about this, this is all sarcasm and insults. Notice how I was asking about your douche baggery? Notice the insults? Like I told you in that conversation, there is a difference. Either you don't know how to tell the difference, or you are so set on being right that you are willing to misrepresent the situation. Therefore, calling it a "mad scale" is completely inaccurate, it should be a "sarcasm scale".

    Now, for some advice for you. I suggest you get down off your high horse, you are not anything special, I don't care how many links you post for us to watch or read about how awesome you are. You have chosen the path of a pirate, so you should expect to have objections to what you do. While it may not be whining, your inaccurate assessments and this blog post is equally as pathetic. I have chosen the path of business, and I expect to be messed with by pirates. But like with everything in life, great risks bring great rewards. Nobody ever gets rich in high sec, which is one of the reasons I chose Oddelulf. Just because you don't understand the business aspect of this game doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you see me mine from time to time doesn't mean that's my only source of income. There are many dynamics that exist in this game, and it's painfully obvious that you either are not aware of many of them, or just don't understand. Therefore, I suggest that you gather more information before you open your mouth and embarass yourself again.

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    Replies
    1. Angry newbie seems.... angry

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    2. From: xxxAlloxxx

      Oh my this is rich.~

      Also Angry Newbie just a fyi, if you have to keep telling people that you are not angry then you are in denial.

      ~Welcome To Molden Heath~

      ~Safe~

      Delete
    3. Ermmm, I'm pretty sure Sugar runs like the biggest trade empire in all of EVE, so learn who you are talking about before making inaccurate statements?

      Also Sugar is not a "mister", she's a miss/missus/ma'am/madam/madame/mistress tyvm.

      Also GODDAMN YOU MAD LOLOLOLOL

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    4. Nobody ever gets rich in high-sec? Tell it to the incursion runners or the market traders, people get OBSCENELY rich in high-sec.

      Also Sugar runs the local lowsec market hub, so pretty sure she understands business.

      Maybe you should try to understand that things aren't mutually exclusive in EVE. You can be both a pirate and business woman and a carebear all at the same time in EVE. There's no rule in EVE that says that if you pirate you can't do business. I 'pirate' but I make most my ISK doing market speculation in high-sec I also moon mine and run reactions and when the mood hits me I put on some jazz and shoot redcrosses as I find that oddly relaxing.

      You draw attention because you get very verbal and negative in local, there's a Ukrainian guy who missions in the lowsec pocket where you live (he flies a Loki you might have noticed him) all he ever does is run missions. And unlike you many of the local 'pirates' like him because he's a nice guy, we hunt him just as much mind you, but he rarely gets caught and he doesn't get all smacky instead he tells us about how awesome his red Mazda is. If you get verbal and negative towards people, well you reap what you sow.

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    5. So... here's the thing right? The more you kick and scream, the more you put down someone and say that people are ignorant and uninformed (when you yourself didn't bother to look back probably 3 posts and see how successful this businessWOMAN is) the more you look like a person incapable of temper control.

      Therefore the title of "Angry Newbie" is bestowed upon you.

      (Sorry for the necro but I mean really, can ya blame me?)

      Delete
  11. That's an awful lot of text for someone claiming not to be angry.

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  12. I think he needs to start watching Fox News.

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