Saturday, August 17, 2013

Public Health Services



Eve is full of people who do services for other Eve players. It is another very fun part of the game. You are not limited to hitting wolves over the head and skinning them. You can supply the knives or offer to tan the skins.

The problem is that Eve is also full of evil people who will backstab you in a moment. That alone will make most people shy away from a concept like this. But, this is not the first group that has appeared and offered to be logistics for THC2 or 7-2 or any group that they think might need a logistics wing.

The idea of a logistics corporation is simple and elegant. First one has to realize that there is Logistics with a capital L. That stands for the spaceships that repair (heal :P) other spaceships. The action of doing logistics is more a player created occupation to function smoothly in Eve. Technically, the concept of Logistics Cruisers being a mobile repair ship makes sense for logistics capabilities. However, it is Eve and logistics is a word that has become technical language. Today, we are focusing on Logistics with a capital L.

Logistics in Eve involve a fair bit of time. The recent buff to T1 logistics has made what was a very steep curve of entry easier and more obtainable. While logistics cruisers and frigates have always existed, it was not until the re-balance pass last December that T1 logistics surged into the lime light and T2 logistics started their retreat to more specialized and serious engagements.

What this did is allow people to try logistics. Before, learning logistics was a long train and sitting in a logistic cruiser was a longer train. To truly make a T2 logistics cruiser shine logistics learned to level V was a basic minimum. It was a daunting task to become a healer and then it was a thankless task once it was accomplished. It also created the interesting side effect of logistics being a way to become invaluable to a group. It was a check mark on the resume.

Anyway, healers. Healers are important. But they are specialized. The train takes months and that is months that you are not learning other skills to improve other abilities to survive in Eve. The first group that I talked to wandered in and had a plan. They were going to find an active pirate organization and offer to become their logistics wing for basic protection in low sec. It would be a symbiosis that made perfect sense. After all, pirates are well known to sow destruction and sup from the cup of DPS.

But the opinion of pirates is often narrow. More of my corporation mates and associates can put a fully skilled logistics pilot on the field than cannot. Because logistics do not show up on kill mails finding out if people have logistics is not always easy. But we do. However, I can forgive them for not knowing that we are broader in ability then expected. It makes sense to offer it to us.

I think that the concept of providing logistics abilities to a corporation is more romantic then it is. It is a thankless task. You will lose ships. You will be primary. You will be expected to sacrifice yourself to get other ships off the field. I understand that there are contracts to be made and goals to be fulfilled but there is a difference between sitting on a field with every module overheated dying in a fire trying to save a corporation mate and being a logistics pilot who is helping out in a fleet for a spotty bit of protection.

Because protection in low sec is hard. We own and push and defend based off of our immediate strength and personal skill molded into a groups ability. Unless we are Ueberlisk.

And then there is a basic trust issue. Yes, there are awoxers. I know lots of people who awox. I don't really care. They are not corpmates. Your corpmates are the people you hang out with. They are the people you undock to go and save. They are the people you throw your ships away to help them and you think nothing of it. Your corpmates are the people who you buy stuff for or who give you ISK to buy things and you don't have to do convoluted bursts of trust.

Or at least. My corpmates are. That is the type of corpmate I am used to. I have no desire to find a different type. The side effect is that a group who is being protected will not have the same passion as the group that actually loves you. And they will not have the same trust. If we are putting billions of ISK on the field it only makes sense that we have taken the time and trained the people to take care of those ships. Hiring another group to come in and expecting that same level of dedication baffles me.

But, to approach the topic fairly and move away from my own passion for the people I play with and the things that we do, most people don't know my side of life in Eve. Our logistics pilots are amazing people who are very skilled in the game. It is not just target ship click on reps. It is as complex a fleet position as any other with independent and group actions, self awareness and situationl awareness all wrapped in an expensive, highly skilled package that is mostly unable to defend itself.

For high sec, I can somewhat see groups offering logistics. For low sec and null sec and wormhole space, I cannot wrap my mind around trusting a group 'hired' for logistics. It is such a sweet concept. It makes sense. It seems like a niche no one else has discovered. But some gaps are persistent. It is always possible that someone will develop a truly elegant solution to the problem. But while that solution is to find a pirate corp to live with and service, it seems one doomed to failure.

Where they do shine is Incursions. The incursion community is the closest comparison to a healthy, public logistics service. And even they fail. People lie about skills and fits. People stop repping. Awoxing happens. It is not a perfect system but as one that I have spent my fair share of time in, it does work. It is also a lot of work but it is highly appreciated and more fulfilling then burning in a fire in a low sec battle you don't care about for people that may not be able to help you achieve the goals you need.

7 comments:

  1. There's no real difference between trusting a field logistics corp (I absolutely HATE that CCP used the term 'logistics' to mean healing instead of supply, like in the real world, but oh well) and trusting alliance (or coalition) members not in your corp flying logi in a fleet. Alliances trust indy corps to make the right stuff and to move it where it's needed and sell it for fair prices. What's the difference between an indy corp and a logi-focused one?

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    1. Which is why I poi ted out what I am used to in a corp. Everyone is everything g. We may specialize in our strengths but it is not an Indy wing and a logistic wing. I find the feel to be different.

      Next : I do believe that there is a difference between an industrial wing supplying items and failing to deliver and a logistic ship deciding to bail during a fight or withdraw instead of holding the field.

      Move that further away to a group asking you to hire them to do this task.

      No one is perfect. Everyone can fuck you over. Nothing is guarantied. But when I see my boys on the field I know they have my back. Its what keeps us together out desire to work together and our mutual goals.

      I've had people in Fleets that were not one of our community but visitors panic and bail or beg the FC to disengage when this vs got ugly.

      Remember, I write from my perspective in Eve. I try to make that clear and I am sorry if I failed to push hard enough on the line of My Eve and My Eve expierence. And this was a group offering themselves to us for rent or hire.

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    2. Everyone writes from their own point of view. That's cool, and to be honest, I don't see how anyone can really do anything else. Just because I disagree with your point of view doesn't I'm attacking you for any reason. I'm just pointing out a counter-argument/different opinion/point of view. Just a friendly discussion.

      Yes, if they weren't offering to join the alliance, I'd be very leery of taking them on board. If they have no buy-in, no stake in success, who's to say they won't stab you in the back? The same can be said for merc corps, too, tbh (though there are some corps/alliances out there more turstworthy than others).

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    3. I don't think you are attacking. However, I know that I can easily speak while forgetting that where my point of view is coming from, may not be clear. Many people often speak of everyone and others when passing judgement and giving opinion.

      In this circumstance, the concept of someone joining your alliance with a specialized niche is normal and familiar to you. It is foreign to me and I had not considered the validity of the offering in that situation.

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  2. Used to play a Holy Priest in WOW...now refuses to heal in EVE ^^

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  3. I'm play logi in dust on fence if I should jump into this role in Eve...

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  4. It is very rewardingly unrewarding. In a game of kill mails only your fleet will know how amazing you are. For some its a painful pill to swallow as glory and ranking is poured down upon the gun wielders only on the public forum.

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