Discussing a fleet where our planned tactics and our execution of said tactics were of great differences, resulting of the loss of the bulk of the fleet it was said "that is a big victory for them."
Victory in this case was defined by the ISK calculation placed on the field. While it is common and true to say that there are different ways to determine who wins and loses it is also common to use ISK as a basic measurement.
A group may kill five hundred ships of their enemy and loose twenty over the course of a war. However, the twenty ships lost might easily be worth twice the cost of the five hundred destroyed. Who is winning there? Both? None?
Most of the fighting in Eve is full of these moments. Outside of sov war and wormhole evictions how does one judge these things? How does one judge what does not matter? For as much as I enjoy PvP for the sake of PvP, very little of our general fighting is done for a reason. We do have plenty of fights for tangible objectives. We are willing to unite as a community against larger threats. I do not dismiss all non Sov PvP as meaningless but a great majority of it is done for the enjoyment of it without further goal. That is where I question judgment.Subjective. Objective. It is judgment and often that judgment works its way down to ISK. Waste and value for ones ISK are sensible themes. Yet, are they also limiting themes? If I fly a Cynabal it is because I want to fly a Cynabal. It is what fits my need. A Thorax or Rupture or Stabber or Omen are not going to be a Cynabal. I could fly a Vagabond but then it is a question of fin differences and small costs.
T1 ships are fantastic for many, many jobs. I do not cast them by the wayside or shun or scorn them for their basic, simplicity. But when one ventures into more costly spaceships it is often for a reason. Reasons where the details start to matter.
And that also brings with it greater loss. If a fleet of shiny ships engages a fleet of T1 ships, and the fleet of T1 ships outnumbers them by a two or three or four to one, the shiny fleet may have an edge due to fitting abilities, hull abilities and pilot abilities, but when one ship dies costing 300 million ISK and it kills six ships on the way down buy they total, perhaps, fifty million ISK, who won? Who lost? What does efficiency matter in that situation?
It seems that it is a metric more than anything else. I asked for our killboard to remove the ISK to IRL Money conversion modification. I hated it. My ISK does not come from my IRL money. Why is it being converted into a comparison and represented as a loss of IRL money? It creates a measurement that is flawed and shallow. It is as shallow as the killboards themselves. And I am a killboard supporter and find htem valuable but their information is flawed because killmails only show one aspect of the battle, making it a shallow metric So much time is spent using comparisons that lack details to create something to judge quality by.
While some need metrics, the information that we have to freely structure said metrics on should not override all of the other details about the situation. Sometimes you have to talk to someone. That is an area where recording battles is, indeed, an over all positive for completeness. And more focus on completeness and less on ISK would cause fewer people who have the ISK to venture to not simply due to avoidance of efficiency as a standard of measurement. And I know, not everyone measure this way but enough people do and enough people do publicly that things as said such as, "It is a victory because of the ISK."
I well understand harming people in the ISK. I think it is a fantastic goal and one of the selling features of Eve. However, that does not mean that if I lose a Cynabal over a Thorax or Rupture that I have been harmed in my ISK. I may have six back in the station fitted and ready to go while the other person has but their Thorax and a grind or a plex to go to replace it. Who wins? Who loses? Who put more at risk? How would anyone even know the answer to any of this other than the individuals in the fight and then not even to each other.
But judging by only the cost of ISK in a situation that is three dimensional frustrates me. So here I rant about it.
Disclaimer: It should be noted that I am a very noncompetitive person and it is where my view on such things wanders off onto its own path.