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Crimewatch Tanked My Sec Status

I stand before you this day to cast judgement down upon CCP and their Retribution Expansion and the changes it has made to the way the denizens of low sec maneuver through the daily trials and tribulations of their space. Let me say, with firmness of thought and stance that these changes have brought forth consequences that expand across the entire region.  That these changes have taken Pirates, souls who skirted the grey line into the full red span of Outlaw Status!  That they have plummeted past the point of redemption their souls darkened and hardened as they stare with cold eyes at the gates of high sec which has cast them so firmly out!  Let me also point out that it is upon these changes were done with this intent in mind!  Before you I cast a story that will chill the hearts and rip away the innocence of those that hear...

Now, someone might go back through things like my blog and other such places of 'information' and point out that my security status was quite unhealthy before crime watch.  I will grudgingly agree.  However, I would like to say that crime watch made it worse.  Before, I hovered around -5.  I sometimes bounced above. I sometimes bounced below.  With the introduction of Retribution my security status plummeted and so far it has continued to go down.

Why it is all Retribution's fault:

The biggest change Crimewatch made to low sec was that gateguns stopped aggressing after the player left the grid.  This opened up a major change in game play for low security space.

Frigates - Once destroyed by gate guns had a chance to tackle and leave.  This could always happen before but the 15 minute aggression meant that the frigate pilot would need to be repaired between each gate and risked dying each gate. Now, once they leave the field they are ready to reengage with the next fight.

Roams - Roaming is faster.  A lot faster. I cannot explain how much faster it is (except to give numbers and examples).  Before, each engagement was dictated by a 15 minute timer for GCC (Global Criminal Countdown) to end.  Until this ended the fleet was constantly shot by gateguns.

Ship Types - The re-balance of Cruiser's was well done.  It opened up the playing field and let people put a more varied fleet composition out there.  They cruisers also became more agile and had more tank.  Mixed with the gate gun changes allowing strategic warping the fight plans changed.

Drones - Now they do matter.  Running from drones in a frigate is something you have to think about.  I've died to them a few times now.  The gateguns ignore them.  This also allows for a fielding of ships that rely on their drones for damage.  Before, with all honesty, they sucked because the gateguns shot their drones which was as if someone just came and snapped off their guns.  It was a lovely strike for drone boats and brought many vicious smaller ships back into the hands of low sec residents.

What does this have to do with my sec status?

We kill everyone now. It used to be, "Kestrel. Not worth it.  Ibis. Don't try for it.  Vexor, not really we have better things to do."  Those things were all limited by the 15 minute freeze the fleet would have to deal with whenever it shot something.

Now it is shoot all of the things.  All. Of. The. Things.  This made tackle important.  To shoot all of the things we need ships that can lock and point those things.  Small ships have a ridiculous habit of leaving the field before large ships can lock them. It is obnoxious.  There the Talos is, its massive large blasters swiveling as huge canisters of ammunition load and bam, the ship is gone before they even get into position to obliterate it!

Anyway, tackle.  Now that tackle can leave and come back and leave again and all the things must be pewpewed my sec status is terrible because all the things include rookie ships and pods.

Pods still hurt the sec status quite a lot in low sec. I fly tackle so my job is to tackle the pod.  Tackling is an aggressive action so I get on the pods kill mail and take the sec hit.

So why shoot pods? I don't know.  They are there.  They are part of all of the things. People don't warp them off.  If they warped them off I'd not shoot them.  But people just leave them there so we shoot them.  Yes we could not shoot them.  But people could also warp them off.  We all make choices. They, not to warp. Me, to tackle the pod.

Thus, it is fully and without doubt, the fault of the Retribution expansion that my security status hovers but a breath above -10.


  1. Thanks, Sugar! This is highly relevant to our internal discussions regarding the "Tags 4 sec" feature, and I've forwarded it to CCP as a reminder of how much harder we're hit under Crimewatch 2.0. I appreciate you breaking down all the various ways it has impacted how we live and fight, and hope the developers find it useful.

    1. As far as 'Tags 4 Sec' personally I would like to see it based on content already easily acessable in lowsec. For example, lets say you add a rat to the final wave of every lowsec anomaly. This rat is gaurentee to drop a sec status tag. You can trade this tag and some isk at a concord lp store to raise your sec status.

      This suggestion allows people in lowsec to get their sec back up in lowsec, and not in nullsec (content which they may not care for). Additionally it serves as an isk sink, and completely prevents anyone who has been hoarding tags since the fanfest announcement from screwing with the economy.

      As I write this I am currently in a deadish area of nullsec going system to system popping rats, because thats the only way to gain sec in a decent amount of time, and it isnt fast or fun at all.

      Given the reduction of downtime between fights due to crimewatch, the frequency of this grind has increased as well. Being able to access content in hisec again after pvping in lowsec should not be this inconviencing imo.

    2. CCP shouldn't be making it easier to raise your security status; what's the point?

      Instead, they should be removing some of the penalties: the gate guns in high-sec space shouldn't fire at criminals, or should be slow to fire such that criminals could get through; and faction navies should be slow to intercept criminals. Let high-sec players take on this responsibility -- it's about time.

    3. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Hisec Gateguns do not fire on people with negative security status. Faction police do spawn and it prevents you from being in space in hisec for anything more than a few seconds without warping off.

      This prevents people from actually participating in hisec content such as incursions, missions, mining, what have you. Now for pirates this isnt really a big deal, sure it is a logistical nightmare getting ships and such down from hisec and sure thats one of the main reasons people, even some pirates, will discourage others (specifically new players) from actually going negative.

      But it is also a problem for roaming gangs made of people who base out of hisec and enjoy the hisec content. Nothing like realizing you cant go back to making isk or anything in your hisec homesystem because you got into a fight and now your at -3.7 sec status.

      The point isnt to remove the grind, but to change it so that it isnt such a punishment for doing pvp.

    4. I was actually trying to point out the effects Crimewatch has had on my gameplay.

      One of those effects is that my security status has gone down much, much faster then it ever had at a prior point. It took me 9 months to go from 0.0 to -5. It took me under a month to go from -5 to -9 with the crime watch changes. Once I hit -9 the loss slowed down and its been working its way down and last time I looked was around -9.6. I have been bouncing around the 9's for a few weeks now.

  2. Recognizing what I believe to be the tongue in cheek delivery of this post, I say "congratulations! Going true -10 is an accomplishment worthy of celebration. I've done it (at least) twice. IMHO, the drudgery of ratting it back up is worth the ease of roaming and having multiple engagements without worrying about the gate guns restricting your movements, especially considering that going flashy is a lifestyle choice and not a "day by day" inconvenience. GJ!

    1. Aye. The post was meant with humor in mind. It seems that I did not accomplish that task very well.

      I have no issues with my security status. If I want it to go up I will go and get it to go up. However, the things that must be done to increase security status are to unpleasant for me. I can spend hours working off one kill. I chose not to do it at all because I would spend all of my time not PvPing trying to maintain a non outlaw security status.

  3. This isn't a flippant comment, so please don't take it as such, but it seems that what you're asking for is to be able to live in lowsec as if you're in nullsec, as far as the sec penalties go, but still have the freedom to shoot what you want without being concorded. Sounds a lot like wanting to have your cake and eat it, too.

    All the ways you've described the new Crimewatch as negatively affecting how you live and fight boil down to choices you make. No one is forcing you to shoot pods, so if your sec status really is causing you that much concern, then don't pod folk. The sec status loss is part and parcel of the price one pays for living in lowsec and being the aggressing party

    Want to pod and shoot without fear of sec status loss? Wardec someone. But if you want to play the pirate, then you've got to accept the sec penalty hits.

    I fly in Caldari FW. It's our corp policy not to shoot neutrals. Not because of any touchy-feeliness - we're all, or mostly all, ex-null dwellers - but because the ability to move between high sec and the war zone is critical to our effectiveness. Even if our policy was to shoot all the things, I wouldn't, because I choose not to give up high sec entry. It's one of the many choices that makes lowsec fun; I have to weigh options and make trade-offs instead of being able to do everything.

    All this said, there can still be room for improvement; lower sec penalties for illegal ship shooting, but keep them (or even increase them) for illegal pod killing. And don't make it too easy to regain that lost sec status. You want to reap the piratical benefits of low, then pay the price of decent society showing the door :)

    It's kind of like crime in the bad parts of any city. The citizens in the better parts of the city tolerate a certain level of lawlessness, but when it crosses a line, in go the flying squads and task forces and on piles the pressure to keep those bad elements out of the good parts.

    1. Me thinks you took me a bit more seriously then I took myself today, Heretic. My goal of pointing out all the new and improved ways I have to fight and the side effect of my sec status going down was what I was writing about.

      I often feel I irritate you a bit with my PvP opinions.

      I do have views on grinding up security status. This post wasn't about grinding but it was about losing. I don't mind that it happens. I 100% choose to pod people as I mention at that end. My biggest issue with grinding security status is that I can not grind it efficiently in low security space where the loses happen and Concord still cares.

      I'm sorry that my humor of the situation did not translate through the choice of writing style I picked today.

    2. For the record, I never thought you were really complaining, but Hans seems to have seized on your post as an example of how broken Crimewatch is and how it should be used to make life too easy on lowsec folks and raising sec status. I hit the wrong reply link. Sorry.

      Your PvP opnions don't irritate me, really, as much as they serve as yet another example of pvp elitism (especially the tech 2 elitism) that has taken a sadly firm grip on the mind of pvpers. I saw this out in null, and I see it amongst the non-null pvp crowd, too. I fell into the trap myself, refusing to pvp until my skills were perfect (which never happened) until one day I realized I was paying a subscription to just sit in station and ship spin because I let others' opinions of when a person 'should' pvp dictate my fun.

      I'm not saying that's what you're saying at all. It's just that your comments provoked a straw and camel's back response. I don't mean to attack you, and it should not be construed as such. It's just that your style makes dissenting opinion feel more welcome here than many of the hard-core blogs where anyone not agreeing with the author is excoriated.

      I agree with your complaint about grinding sec status. It's not that easy (read non-time consuming) in highsec, either. In general, I do agree with the current situation where it's easier to lose than gain, but sometimes I do wonder if the ratio is a little (and I stress the little) out of whack. Like I said in my original comment, maybe shooting ships should give a small penalty than it does now. After all, committing low-level crime while living in a high-crime region shouldn't attract undue attention from the authorities. Pod killing, though...

    3. I wanted to make sure. Conversation starts and opinions are expressed. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I just want to make sure that my point is made as I'm trying to make it and correct it if I am not.

      The T2 elitism thing is interesting. Maybe I will comment on it because I feel the same way in a different direction. I fly T2 frigates because T1 frigates take 4-5 gategun hits to die. I choose interceptors because they are fast and faster then their t1 parts.

      But I'll write something longer on this I think and we can see how I feel and how you feel and have good discussions on it. :)

  4. Sugar,

    Thanks for the insight. I read your post more as a factual statement regarding how the changes have affected you and not as a "this sucks" comment. I always find your perspective valuable, well thought out and relevant. I do agree that living in low sec and "shooting everything" needs to have the applicable consequences and based upon your post they seem to be appropriate. Some commenter’s think that the "shooting everything" effects to their security status should be a temporary thing easily corrected with a mere hour or so of ratting in a belt collect a shiny and go trade it to the man for forgiveness, seems to be an outgrowth of "if I misbehave cant I just do a 5min timeout verses any other form of punishment?" Actions will always speak louder than words and consequences should always be more severe than the crime else the deterrent effect is negated. Again love reading your perspectives.



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