Skip to main content

Instant Access PvP?

One of the complaints I read today, in a comment on Gevlon's blog was that faster and easier access to PvP would be a good thing. On a similar note, there has also been a suggestion that it has time sinks and you cannot just log onto it and frantically press button and receive PvP. Many people feel that should be fixed and that to give instant PvP will fix Eve when it comes to player retention.

I disagree. While some players may come to Eve for PvP I believe that most come for spaceships. What they do with those spaceships then wanders a long arching pathway and many wind up where they did not expect themselves to be.

The first question is: What is faster access to PvP?

PvP has a human factor. It is frustrating to have someone log in and immediately desire PvP and then state their boredom when they do not receive it. The player is playing against other players. Other players may not wish to be the precipitant of PvP and go through lengths to avoid it. Eve is billed as a PvP game. That label is a bit simplistic. Planetside2 is a PvP game. I log in, click on some world map, fall, and run around and shoot other people. There can be sense and planning but most of the game is hectic running around shooting at people and being shot.

Planetside2 gives you sides. In some games it is just a free-for-all. Log in and shoot everything that is not yourself. I’m assuming from their popularity that many people consider this to be fun. That is fantastic. However, that is not Eve. PvP in Eve is sometimes frantic and overwhelming and sometimes it can’t be found for all the water in the ocean. Eve itself is a game of planning and strategy. Instant magic box of thrills may or may not be on the menu tonight. We won't know until we go looking.

The fastest access often suggested is Arenas where people are waiting to PvP right now! I'm going to ignore the many problems of Arenas and focus on the instant PvP part.

Press button and receive PvP feels like a devaluation of many of Eve’s core principles. Time is an intertwined facet of the game. Decision making cascades into consequences. People often say, “Get rid of the time sinks so that we can have fun!” But would removing the time sinks simply for convince improve the game? Or would it give people a faster access to their goal point with even less planning and decision making?

This is not to be confused by an institute such as RvB. RvB has created an instant PvP environment However, it is a player created situation. Creation of player made environments is a hallmark of Eve. While RvB may give players a fast access to PvP they are still bound by everything else that makes Eve. They have created their own game and opened up for the entire player base that wishes to join in.

I also feel that it is taking away from the planning and search and possibility of not receiving PvP. Not receiving PvP makes receiving PvP all the better. Roaming out and finally getting a fight is an amazing experience. It is not boring. It is not, “Let me skip this arena and go to the next.” Skipping a fight is because one is avoiding a WTFBBQ and that fight may come chasing after you. Just as you do not have a button to make a fight you also do not have a button to leave a fight. I think the two are interconnected.

And then there is the question of want. A player may join eve for PvP. They may then want that PvP all the time. However, a hauler may want the trip from Jita to Rens to be ten jumps instead of thirty. A miner may want an asteroid to have an entire hold full of ore before recycling. A ship builder may want the carrier to pop out of the oven in one day instead of two weeks. Want and should get are not the same thing.

I find myself frustrated with those lacking patience. At one time a four day skill was enough to shatter my mind and activate my need for now. Now a thirty day skill is understood. Its end reward is of immense value to me. When I go to PvP sometimes I have to wait. Sometimes I receive nothing. When I do receive the fight its value is sweeter for the effort that went into it.

Eve is and is not a casual game. One can set a skill and log out knowing the charater can advance. One can also pour time and energy into a goal and be rewarded with it. Sometimes a great reward falls into the players lap with little effort. However, often times that reward has a unseen past of effort that went into creating it.

While there are plenty of situations a player can put themselves into to receive instant PvP, I feel that a mechanics where a player logs in presses a button and is teleported into instant PvP would not only do the game a disservice it would not fix the problem. People would look for the next instant rush to amuse themselves. They would never know the sweet taste of success from stalking a target or executing a beautiful trap. PvP would be a two dimensional situation. Go to mission agent request mission. Go to PvP button and request PvP.

And then there is the door that must remain shut. The door that leads to a 100% safe space in Eve. Button PvP would only loosen the lock of that door. With instant button PvP what need would there be for high sec PvP? Challenge them to the arena and settle it. No kill mails or even better arena kill mails. I'm gagging at the thoughts.

Comments

  1. Great stuff sugar, simply great :-)

    ReplyDelete
  2. EVE is not a game for "gimme gimme gimme" kids who are so widespread nowadays. You can't get ISK, you can't get ships, you can't get even a damn guy to shoot at you unless you work for it. Hard to understand for many.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Couldn't agree more to you. Not even in Real life people know what is good for them or whether what they wish for is good for them.

    Calling for "not dump the game down" and wanting "instant pvp" ... that really would dump the game down.

    I play this game for 6 years now and it is because you need to work for what you want. You see an enemy fleet coming along you need to rally your in time to fight them before they are gone or standing right at your front door.

    Want less travel time to pvp? bring your staging system closer to the enemy (but risk it to be taken over sooner).

    Eve is a PvP game sure, but it has its chess flavor that is needed to contain the consequences. Everything you want you need to earn it. If you don't like that, this is not the game you are looking for.

    ReplyDelete
  4. And with this post you just proved to be the best blogger out there.

    Instant gratification is the plague for this new generation of eve players. As the bitter vets leave the game and new players come in, ccp will have to cater for their need of a cheap thrill.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Would making an arena mean people wouldn't chase me anymore? NO! That's what makes running around low sec fun. And I'm not sorry for not just sitting around to pew pew my ships.

    ReplyDelete
  6. There are many ways to include easier-to-get pvp that would not devalue current longer gratification pvp. Simply dismissing a plethora of possibilities out of hand because you set up one version in your head that would have negative consequences is shortsighted. Think outside the (sand) box.! :-)

    ReplyDelete
  7. You just need to run with an organized outfit in Planetside2.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Sugar’s Non-Technical Guide to Making Boosters

Welcome to my non-technical and outdated but probably still useful guide to boosters.  There have been changes to how things are built in Eve. This was the old POS code before the introduction of new structures in 2016.   This is just a walk through on my wobbling path of booster production.  It took me half a dozen different documents to figure out what I needed to do to make these mythical things.  It is what I do.  It may not be perfect but it works.

This is pirate focused industry.
This guide brought to you by Lain asking me to write it after I tried to explain it in chat.

Why make boosters? Because drugs are good.  Really they are performance enhancers and performance enhancers can give someone that extra edge in PvP.  It was also because my boys used them and when they ran low they often ran out, I could be their supplier.  They would no longer hoard their drugs due to the length of time it takes to get fresh product.. The thought of being a drug kingpin was also very appealing. …

Have you done your Eve Vegas Survey?

I did attend Eve Vegas to the shock of many. I'd already paid for it and allotted the time. It seemed that I should go.


I went to the Grand Canyon and Hoover as well. This is not the space to discuss those amazing places or my new Camera.

Eve Vegas was a bit harder for me to go to then I expected. I've detached from Eve for the most part these past months. It is very easy to be angry, frustrated, and bitter about the past that I lived on. The game, its development, and the players move on while I find myself emotionally stuck. That emotional stickiness does not need to be given to everyone else. Part of experiencing it was shielding people from it. But, as I accepted my items and stared down the poor gentleman that tried to put a wristband around my wrist, I realized that I wasn't in as good of a place as I had hoped to be.

That is where the Survey comes in. There are a few things that I could say and did say. A few of the questions made me want to say a bit more.

One was …

Your ideal roadmap

To try to be a bit more interesting then blogging yet another daily list of summit meetings, how about a question?

In the producer session, as we try to figure out how to fix and improve our communication with teams and how we figure out who should be gone to for features and changes, we discussed the road map.

We discussed what 'our' ideal roadmap would be. This breaks down into the individual roadmaps for each member of the CSM. After all, we are individiuals and we have different dreams for Eve. We have different goals and features that we want to move forward or go back to.

How close are we to what CCP is looking at and planning? We discussed their safety mesures to weigh the value of features. What will this feature do for Eve? It is not enough to have an ideal road map of things you want. Those things have to have value and that value needs to be enough to dedicate the time to the feature.

Do you have an ideal roadmap? A path for Eve to head in the next year or two once …