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Backtracking About Proposed Gategun Changes

Today, oddly, turned out to be about the CSM.

I was not expecting that. I was flipping through Poetic Stanziel's blog and reading his argument of and with Ripard Teg about his opinion on if Ripard Teg was going to run for CSM next spring.

It got me to thinking about how I wanted to pay more attention to it the next time elections came about. When the CSM was elected this time around I had only been in the game for a few months. I placed my vote with someone who gained a seat and has proven to do nothing with it. Then, to top it off, my actually in game interactions with him have been so full of bitter disappointment and horror at his egotistical behavior that I wish I could rescind my votes.

It is not that I have a doe eyed opinion that the CSM is going to change Eve. It is that I want them to put the time and energy into what they wanted. The same complaints the public always has for its elected officials. Even if nothing gets accomplished I just appreciate the effort as promised.

After I finished reading Poet spar with Ripard and was flipping through more tweets to occupy myself I saw a tweet from CSM Member Hans Jagerblitzen. So far I like Hans and his commentary on various threads in the Crime and Punishment Forum section have been good. I don't follow audio or visual information if I can avoid it so I've missed a lot of the information about the CSM since it seems that text is not their preferred method of communication.
"Attention all pirate and FW scumm - an update on "GateGunGate" … I know pitchforking is fun, but it'll have to wait."
This was exciting. Off to the forums I went to read. The gategun threads had not died. They had slowed a bit but the war about the entire issue was still going strong. Some of the members of Negative Ten had even spoken up.
Hans Jagerblitzen #782 Posted: 2012.08.22 12:55
o/ Hello again pod people.
Just wanted to stop by and give you a brief update, after speaking with CCP Greyscale about the gate gun changes in great detail, he's once again assured me and the CSM that this gate gun idea was just an idea he was toying with, and not something that is definitely in the pipeline for development. After the flood of player feedback as well as my own urging for him to reconsider this, its no longer an idea that is being pushed forward anyways. I'll be monitoring his work on GCC, sec status, and crimewatch in general as we move further into Winter, but as of right now the gate gun idea has stalled.
The minute that status changes - I'll let the community know as soon as possible so we can continue "the resistance". But in the meantime, there's not much to fight against because this doesn't appear to be moving past the idea stage, thanks to all who have spoken up.

I was happy. It is always nice to be heard. I had debated saying anything but silent suffering just lets you suffer silently. It is hard to remember that everyone does not know me or know the people that I know. They see the label (pirate) and the negatives that come with it. Just as my low sec status brings comments and some people that seem to know and like me sometimes make comments that tell me that my interest in PvP makes them uncomfortable.

 Of course, with the thread lounging in General Discussion, the trolling and confused comments came rolling in. It is frustrating for there to be so many words said and so many ideas shared and so little understanding resulting from it.
To repeat myself, because I like words, the major argument against changing gateguns was that it would not deter gatecamps and would instead destroy small fleet fights. Yet, endlessly, people keep repeating that we need not be 'lazy' and we need to go 'find' the fights.

My last two roams where very productive including a capital ship kill. I don't remember celebrating once about taking down a 2 day old player in an Ibis with civilian modules while my arm snapped from patting myself on the back. But, that fear of gate camps and that boogyman of low sec masks understanding from people. Its to easy to gibber in fear and debate how we all eat newbies and that is the only reason we have to be in low sec.

Not that new players do not get killed. The typhoon I killed a few weeks ago didn't belong where he was. But what is a noob? We would have scanned him down in a mission and killed him as well. But that falls into the argument that we should not shoot everyone. Sigh.
When Singoth of RvB(Blue) Said:
#791 Posted: 2012.08.22 15:33 Hello,
Gatecamping is wrong, annoying, prevents newbies from getting to low/null and make a living there. I think that's the main reason why.
If you want to fight, start an actual roam, instead of camping gates 23,5/7. And jump to an other gate from time to time.
This will not impede with normal fighting if you have some actual PvP experience. Gatecamping requires no experience, just patience, and we all know that waiting for something to happen without much risk involved is much like mining, which is carebearing, which is EVIL AND MUST BE EXTERMINATED AT ALL COSTS.

I ignored him. Normally I'd not quote such drivel or draw any public attention to it. I ignored him as I ignored most of the other rantings about how we are terrible people. Yet, ganking high sec miners, that's pro. Killing people in low sec under conditions he does not approve of? That's terrible. I would have rolled my eyes and ignored it if I didn't refresh to see this:

Then another CSM Member, Issler Dainze said:
#805 Posted: 2012.08.22 18:32
So sadly even though there seemed to be support for this change by some players and at a couple of CSM for some variation of the idea only one side of the feedback seems to have been heard. Sad.
The first I heard of Issler was a thread where she was called out for an alliance mail she sent. She spent a lot of time in that thread trying to do damage control and back stepping as she attempted to convince people that what she said was not what she meant.

And she was going to come and stomp all over this thread. She is one of the high security representatives and her representation is to try to crush low sec a bit more. After her hysterical rant all over her alliance eve mail I've had a hard time taking her seriously.

Just yesterday I said that snarkyness was not a habit of mine. I've learned that I have my limits.
My response:
#807 Posted: 2012.08.22 18:48
I will do everything in my power to support CSM reps with a clue. I am glad I did not vote for you. It is a shame you were elected with the attitudes you have shown over and over again. Hans stood up for our valid gamestyle to stop a change that would not fix the so called problem but increase it and nerf the fleet combat as a side dish.
Someone might actually respect you, Issler. Please, don't embarrassing them further.
So... I was a bitch.
I was then trolled for sounding like a carebear for saying 'valid gamestyle'. I responded that I carebear every day. They didn't care for that and tried to demean me a bit more. General Discussion on the forums is like that. Its putting yourself out to burn. I have no idea why I keep doing it. I don't enjoy having the attention of trolls and the vicious masses.

Sometimes I boggle myself on why I put myself out there. Of course, I comment on that in a blog I write that is open to the public. I do confuse myself at times.

But before I signed off on this blog post, I refreshed the forum to see her backtracking. This is such a habit that it makes me grit my teeth. I hate politics but there are times when one has to wade forward. Politics.... welp... sometimes stuff has to be done and efforts need to be made to not have people reelected.
Minmatar Citizen 160812 #821 Posted: 2012.08.22 23:32
I asked once before so I'll reword it and see if you have an answer this time.
Once past the gate what would carebears be able to do in space that wouldn't result in them being hunted down and killed? How would any change to sentries increase interest in low sec considering the answer to the first question is nothing?
(His name used to be the Gay Jesus or something like that. CCP changes 'offensive' names to things like the above)
Issler Dainze #822 Posted: 2012.08.23 00:02
Well, depends on the care bear. For example if they can get into low sec they can consider trade at stations, explore the belts, search for anomolies or even consider missions that require low sec. Don't get me wrong, this alone is not the "get the bear into low sec fix" but reducing gate camps will have to part of the solution once other carrots are put into low sec to make risk/reward make sense in this under utilized portion of space.
And to be fair I should have reworded my post. What I was really reacting to was that this issue is not "clear support against and none for", there was support for variations of the idea with players as well as those against. Not acknowledging that some folks liked the idea in general (including a few CSM) was what prompted me to post.
I don't think gate gun changes are as dead as some may have suggested. Also, the real discussion should be broader about how to improve low sec for everyone.

I'll end this post here before my words become much darker and more vicious.


  1. I think we should just turn the whole fucking thing into chainmail-g-strung topless Elvish chicks wandering around killing NPCs. That's what everybody wants, right? *rolling eyes*

    "Democracy is the misguided belief in the collected wisdom of the individual ignorance." -- my literary Gawd Awmighty, HL Mencken. Moar and moar, I feel like a less-witty, less-pithy, but more acerbic, sarcastic, and generally-evil reincarnation of him. lol

  2. Well, I like gatecamping lowsec entry systems too, exactly BECAUSE it requires not much skill (in and out of game), involves little risk and just pays so much due to dumb people jumping their shinies in without a scout. Pubbies need to learn to respect the warnings when jumping into low/nullsec and that they are no special snowflakes that won't be attacked by pure luck.

    1. I don't think gatecamping should be stopped. That may or may not come through my arguments. I have gate camped and have written about it. It just isn't my thing. I hate the it should 'go away because scary' mentality. Heaven forbid any part of the game take preparation and thought.

      I watched someone go through Amamake today and get popped and give it another go knowing their decision was not the best but wanting to take that route.

    2. No, no, no. Mining is the only accepted no-skill, semi-AFK pursuit in the game... even missions and plexes require being there (according to Sreegs anyway), and the 4th grade reading level to use eve-survival. lol

  3. The main problem is indeed what does a highsec dweller do in lowsec if he passed the gate? He will die anyway.

    Gatecamps actually do him a service by showing his destroyer or T1 cruiser the door instantly. The worst thing that can happen with a newbie is first going to lowsec with his newly purchased battleship, with his fresh +4 implants.

    However CCP should be more helpful to newbies and reword the popup in your picture to "Low security system: if you enter here without having well-armed friends with you, you lose your ship and your implants. Turn back!"

    1. I do believe is should say "There be wolves and dragons here who will eat you for you are crunchy and taste good with ketsup". That, sadly falls into the 'people don't read the population' side of the problem with trying to force feed information.


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