Sunday, July 22, 2012

Saga: Ganker and Gankee

This is labeled a Saga because it is very, very long. Thanks to Mane for providing fuel for me today. It feeds in well with the flood of 'gankers ruin eve' and 'they just get off on being big and bad' posts the forums are flooded with at the moment.

[TL;DR: This will be a long post with eve mails, forum cuts, chat logs, some tears, some drama, and some other stuff. It's about gankers, gankees and the pieces of the story that get left out.]

I've talked about my allaincemate's little pet project, the MHEA. It is one of those little player made content things that people can do. It also pisses people off. This only fuels the members to continue.

This is the 'dark' side of Eve. How a dark game has a dark side, who knows, but this is the type of thing that Eve players do that they would not be allowed to do on other games. Basically, the MHEA enforces 'mining licenses' in the area of Molden Heath and only Molden Heath. If miners are unlicensed they are inspected and the inspection is a bit rough and results in the ships exploding. Licensed ships are not inspected by the MHEA but there are rogue inspectors out there who act outside of the jurisdictional boundaries of the MHEA.

The MHEA, at the end of the day, ganks miners. It does so in a somewhat roleplayish trollish way that endlessly amuses the members. It is part of their gameplay. It is non consensual spaceship violence wrapped around creativity while poking sticks at people. Some will call it griefing. Yet, someone has taken the time to create and follow through on aspects of gameplay. The only reason it is 'grief' is that it is something negative. If the MHEA gave out mining barges and mining lasers, no one would call that griefing.

What has happened is that content has been created for one player, his alliance, and other players that wish to join in. It is not new or magical but it keeps people amused. It is something they go out and do.

He makes money from the entire ganking process. The T2 salvage from the hulks can easily bring in 50 million or more. Another interesting side effect he has noticed is that he can resell the modules he loots from the wreckage over and over again. He will gank a hulk and place the strip miners on the local market. The strip miners then sell. He notices the name of the person that buys them. 5-20 minutes later, that person undocks in a hulk. He goes and 'inspects' that unlicensed hulk. He looks the strip miners if they drop. He places the item back on the market. This cycle repeats itself over, and over, and over again. He has sold the seemingly same modules over five times in a single day.

When I asked if he minded me discussing the entire thing he said, "Not at all - it is part of the business model".

And it is a business model. It may not be a "nice" one but it is an actual one. It is not his only way to make isk. It is not his main way of making isk. It is something that he does to amuse himself. He does not stand on a soapbox and scream about the honorable 1v1 PvP he offers to mining barges.

The thread started yesteray. I noticed Mane say that he had updated a thread from the Eve Online forums and posted a link to said thread. I followed it, becuase Mane's postings amuse me greatly, to find out that he was again disturbing someone's mining and ruining someones game.

The title of the thread is quite grand: Suicide Ganking and it's effect in EVE (my opinion).

It seems that the poster, Meinerman. Bsically, he decided to mine and Mane ganked him. There were words in local, words in Eve mail, and finally a somewhat calm, thoughtful forum post.

However, the end result of the forum post allows so much to be missed. Today, I decided to see if I could weave the tale into its full glory.


Posted: 2012.07.20 23:46

"I started off playing EVE in 2008 as a miner. I worked hard and built up my mining skills and helped out a few corps along the way. I have never been a bot, only mined AFK once in all that time and very rarely dumped my ore onto the market. Recently my corp bought a mackinaw for use in gathering material for production. I used it well until yesterday when I was suicide ganked in Teonusude in Molden Heath.

I am not writing this to complain about being ganked, of course I was angry when it happened, but such is life in eve. I have read many posts both for and against suicide ganking and I see both sides. As a victim, my fellow miners will probably be surprised to read that I do not believe the practice should be stopped by CCP. I learned a valuable lesson from it and will alter my game play accordingly (thankfully most of my skills are combat related). My one complaint is that some corps and alliances are doing it under the banner of "law." Saying they have the exclusive rights to issue mining licenses in highsec space. This is extortion pure and simple and it is a cowardly way to play in my book. From what i read most gankers do it for some higher cause and thats understandable albeit sometimes misguided. But most of them are dedicated PvPers who also play elsewhere. I am going to move to null sec with a credible corp and alliance and continue to mine, but not the boring highsec mining any more. And when I am called to fight I will do so with enthusiasm and play eve in the funnest way I can. So the effect suicide ganking has on EVE, in my opinion, is both good or bad. It all depends on how the ganked person takes it:)"


It is not a bad post but it is a confused one. Meinerman is confused about why the entire thing happened. His viewpoint on PvP also leans towards the aspects of Honor. Honor is missing from the equation because it does not exist in the equation. There is nothing honorable because it is not about honor.

He has also not taken the time to look at Mane's killboard or if he did, he did not scroll down. I'll leave it here.


Next he adds: Posted: 2012.07.21 00:02

Thanks I am brain dead and didn't see it. And yes what bothered me was the guy harrassing me in mail about paying him 50 mil a month. I said no and he kept emailing me. Other than that...gank away


And enter Mane: Posted: 2012.07.21 22:33
Good day. I'm Mining Inspector #14, and I've been asked to respond to the OP.

We are authorized agents for the MHEA and their rules are very clear - no mining in Molden Heath without a license. The OP was found mining in Molden Heath without a license, and so I followed the standard protocol for inspection - destroy the offending ship.

I was promptly greeted with profanity and threats in local, and when I explained the error of his ways, there was simply more of the same. When I sent a followup EVE mail explaining how to get a license I received 2 mails in return - one laden with profanity and the other boasting about how many Mackinaws he could afford and threatening to bring capital ships against mining inspectors.

When I followed up to find out how many capital ships there would be (each one would of course need a license), I again received insults and a bit of whining. I admit I lost my temper at that point (clearly its time for me to get more sensitivity training), but even so I tried one last time to be helpful, explaining that fitting a civilian shield booster on a Mackinaw is not a good idea. The response was as bitter as before, only this time there was a claim of harassment.

I was surprised as he had been sending me twice as many mails as I sent him. In any event, I responded in kind asking that he not send me any more mails. But he did.....sigh.

The OP clearly needs to learn more about the environment and the devastation caused by illegal mining (we have training programs available at a very reasonable rate). I hope he sees the error of his ways. My apologies to the MHEA - I will sign up for that sensitivity course. Oh - and to the OP - I can issue you that license at any time; happy to help out.

Mane Frehm
Mining Inspector #14


Mane's posts are pure roleplay. Although, he is actually that polite and calm normally. I fly with him a lot due to our time zones and I believe, that we get along quite well together. I asked him to send me the eve-mails on the topic. Before I move to the eve-mails in question, I will let the origional poster from the forums have his follow up to Mane's post.

Now there is a lot of information lacking in the story due to the forums rules that prevent eve-mails and chatlogs from being directly posted. However, this is my little world so I get to post the entire story. I find it interesting stuff myself, to see both sides before and after and a little bit of during.

I have posted the MHEA's introduction mail to players and I will again. It is a form letter that all of the licensed mining inspectors use.


Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Mane Frehm
Sent: 2012.07.20 03:39
To: Meinerman,

Greetings and Salutations from The Executioners (official agents for the Molden Heath Environmental Authority; additional information available at

At approximately 0208 EVE time today (Friday July 19th), you were found mining in Molden Heath without a mining license, and as a result The Executioners (TEXN) turned your mining barge into a smoking wreck. We regret this action, but we have found that warnings do not achieve the desired results. As you are now aware, the mining profession almost forces you to become a stationary target, incapable of any real defense against our dedicated teams of mining inspectors. The investment for us is minimal...almost negligible. The loss for you is likely more significant.

There's hope however. Mining Licenses are available at the very reasonable price of 50 million ISK per month. Once we have the record of your Mining License in our files, you will be safe from any further sanctions by our mining inspectors. In addition, a Mining License provides you with insurance against the loss of your mining barge in highsec*. Allow me to elaborate: if any other party destroys your vessel, we will provide you with a replacement and declare war on the aggressors.

Please consider carefully and choose wisely. 50 million ISK per month is a small price to pay to meet your environmental obligations and to have real peace of mind. Come in under the TEXN umbrella.

Contact me via evemail or private conversation to sign up as soon as possible.

Mine in safety, mine with the TEXN guarantee.

Mane Frehm
Mining Inspector #14

*Note – this coverage does not extend to lowsec and nullsec. Underwriting provided by Mutual of Jita.


Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:03
To: Mane Frehm,



Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:05
To: Mane Frehm,

I can afford more mackinaws..and from now on we mine in force with capital ship protection...still want to play?


Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw From: Mane Frehm
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:11
To: Meinerman,

Thank you for your reply.

As you have indicated that there will be more than one of you mining at a time, I am happy to tell you that we do have a corporate rate for mining licenses. Please let me know how many members of your corporation will be mining or in support ships; with this information I can quote you the correct rate.

Have a GREAT day.

Mane Frehm
Mining Inspector #14


Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:24
To: Mane Frehm,

Nobody in this place is going to pay you dumbass


Re: Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Mane Frehm
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:28
To: Meinerman,

Many have paid and continue to pay.

And the only dumbass here is the one who fit his Mackinaw with a Civilian Shield Booster. You deserved to lose that ship with that fit.

Have a GREAT day.


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:29
To: Mane Frehm,

it wasn't designed for pvp moron


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Mane Frehm
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:29
To: Meinerman,

True - you were being a PvE moron.

Have a GREAT day


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:30
To: Mane Frehm,

do not write me again in any form or i will get you for harassment.


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:31
To: Mane Frehm,

CCP actually does take harassment seriously believe it or not. Unwanted emails from people do not contact me again


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Illegal mining - lost Mackinaw
From: Meinerman
Sent: 2012.07.20 04:33
To: Mane Frehm,

You solciting ISK from people in unwanted emails is not polite. You have no legal grounds to ask another person for ISK in their personal mails. Your so called liscense isn't sanctioned by anyone but your lame alliance.


And that ends the Eve Mails. He says on the forum that Mane finally quit Eve Mailing him and harassing him.

Back to the forums where a follow up to Mane's forum response enters the picture.


Posted: 2012.07.22 18:35

Funny, I never claimed to be rich. I did say some friends were interested in a large scale mining op and yes I will admit I reacted angrily at first to the senseless loss of my 190mil ship. Every email I sent in return to the "inspector" asked him to not contact me again and yet he persisted. And on a side note, a few of my friends stayed out there mining with an orca and hulk so I decided to give them a little coverage. When an "inspector" showed up and realized someone there would shoot back he promptly left. Too much like a real fight I guess, I don't know. Anyways, suicide ganking in and of itself isn't the problem here. There is another guy James 315 who does it in Caldari Space and only in one spot. His reasoning is seeing ice fields littered with cans and constantly full of AFK people. I actually agree with his methods and techniques. He will not touch low sec miners but the MHEA will.

Bottom line, when faced with an actualy defense MHEA will run. They harrass miners, not to eliminate bots (like my friend James), but to simply cause grief. From reading other posts however, if they are attacked without warning they shed the biggest tears of them all.


Mane responded: Posted: 2012.07.22 21:27

Good afternoon. Mining Inspector #14 here again.

The OP does appear to be suffering from short term memory loss, but sadly the rules of C&P do not allow me to post your mails or the delightfully profane chat log. Let me correct some errors:

1. You did say via EVE Mail that you could afford more Mackinaws, clearly implying that the loss meant nothing to you. As a Mining Inspector, I know that the loss of an exhumer is a sad moment for any miner, and I can understand your bitterness. You really should have obtained a license before putting that poor ship at risk.

2. You sent me a total of 7 EVE mails, several laden with profanity (your mother must be very proud). The first 2 mails were in response to our standard followup EMAIL providing license information, and when I responded with 1 mail you again sent me 2. You did not request that I cease to contact you until your 5th mail, at which point I responded asking you to cease contacting me as well. You somehow managed to send me another 2 mails claiming harassment.

3. Mining Inspection has nothing to do with fighting. There is no defence against mining inspectors, which we state clearly in our standard followup mail. We are performing a valuable service on behalf of all of the inhabitants of Molden Heath, which you clearly have failed to appreciate. Again I urge you to take advantage of our training programs to correct this deficiency in your knowledge.

4. If its fighting you want, that's a different conversation. Come visit us in Hegfunden and we can have a chat.

Have a GREAT day.

Mane Frehm
Mining Inspector #14


And the final post from Meinerman on the forums.


Posted: 2012.07.22 23:05 I did use profanity and I have 8 total emails from you including iniating unwanted contact. I freely admit I was angry and did say I would come back with support which is still true. you and your mhea are sad misguided people and that is each their own. you like to shoot defenseless ships and to publicly say you don't is even less honorable than the act itself and shows that you have no taste for any actual challenge. I will no longer reply to your asinine comments in this forum. good day sir

I convinced Mane to dig up the chat logs for me as well from local. Mane goes into pure troll mode at these times with local. However, the chat logs were alluded to, so here they are.


[ 2012.07.20 01:56:32 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Local : Teonusude
[ 2012.07.20 02:08:48 ] Meinerman > you mofo piece of shit
[ 2012.07.20 02:09:15 ] ghettojr01 > lol damn
[ 2012.07.20 02:09:26 ] Mane Frehm > excuse me?
[ 2012.07.20 02:09:33 ] Mane Frehm > profanity is uncalled for
[ 2012.07.20 02:09:43 ] Mane Frehm > If only you had purchased a license!
[ 2012.07.20 02:09:44 ] Meinerman > go %^$& yourself
[ 2012.07.20 02:09:52 ] Meinerman > you dont liscense shit
[ 2012.07.20 02:10:12 ] Mane Frehm > The rules of the Molden Heath Environmental Authority must be obeyed
[ 2012.07.20 02:10:29 ] Meinerman > you are not in charge ill be waiting for you faggots
[ 2012.07.20 02:10:31 ] Mane Frehm > As an official mining inspector, when I see illegal mining I must act
[ 2012.07.20 02:10:48 ] Meinerman > next time you act you think i just mine?
[ 2012.07.20 02:10:55 ] ghettojr01 > LOL
[ 2012.07.20 02:11:21 ] Mane Frehm > well - you were mining illegally. You really should have known better
[ 2012.07.20 02:11:26 ] Mane Frehm > learn more at
[ 2012.07.20 02:11:27 ] askos > Schizophrenia is a serious disease , please check up at you local physician
[ 2012.07.20 02:11:29 ] Meinerman > haha you are funny
[ 2012.07.20 02:11:40 ] Meinerman > illegally by whose laws?
[ 2012.07.20 02:11:52 ] Mane Frehm > sigh - I just posted the link for you
[ 2012.07.20 02:12:02 ] Meinerman > ill mine illegally in something with weapons next time bring it
[ 2012.07.20 02:12:19 ] askos > The smell of delusion is overwhelming
[ 2012.07.20 02:12:25 ] Mane Frehm > threatening a mining inspector - this is sad
[ 2012.07.20 02:12:26 ] Meinerman > fuckk you are youf link dude this isnt sovereign territory go play in null sec if you want to play that way
[ 2012.07.20 02:13:25 ] Mane Frehm > you are being quite rude. Are you unhappy about losing your Mackinaw?
[ 2012.07.20 02:13:27 ] Meinerman > also if you wanted to play that way you could give a warning before you kill
[ 2012.07.20 02:13:42 ] Meinerman > but you assholes like to just kill people for no reason
[ 2012.07.20 02:13:45 ] Mane Frehm > get a license and it wont happen again - you will feel so much better
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:00 ] Mane Frehm > and we tried just giving warnings; for some reason no one paid attention
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:12 ] Meinerman > i never saw it
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:24 ] Meinerman > and i will never paly you a dime but i will mine in force with protections
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:28 ] Jahxsis > mining licensce? That must be a new aspect of EVE I am unaware of
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:32 ] Mane Frehm > there are warnings posted at the entry to Molden Heath and in other locations
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:39 ] Meinerman > you are full of shit
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:41 ] Mane Frehm > such as in the Ice Belt in Teonusude
[ 2012.07.20 02:14:45 ] Meinerman > and i will find you
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:03 ] Mane Frehm > and your continued profanity will not accomplish anything
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:14 ] Mane Frehm > I'm here all the time...just doing my job
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:21 ] Meinerman > neither will your continued existence
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:21 ] Mane Frehm > now about that license....
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:26 ] Meinerman > fuck you
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:40 ] Mane Frehm > I am enjoying your witty repartee
[ 2012.07.20 02:15:53 ] Meinerman > you are not worth wit
[ 2012.07.20 02:16:03 ] Meinerman > see how long you assholed can do that i know
[ 2012.07.20 02:16:10 ] Mane Frehm > you seem bitter. Buy a license and feel better!
[ 2012.07.20 02:16:44 ] Meinerman > pay for my ship and i will buy a lifelong liscense
[ 2012.07.20 02:17:17 ] Mane Frehm > no (explaining to someone clearly very young). It doesnt work that way. Buy a license and then you can mine
[ 2012.07.20 02:17:38 ] Meinerman > how bout i mine in force and you can fell free to agress me
[ 2012.07.20 02:17:49 ] Meinerman > and my fleet wiill just wipe you out very easily
[ 2012.07.20 02:18:03 ] Eisler Rollard > what the hell is a mining licence anyway
[ 2012.07.20 02:18:46 ] Mane Frehm > Eisler - you can learn about it at
[ 2012.07.20 02:18:53 ] lashana darkmoon > Its a pirate scam,
[ 2012.07.20 02:18:58 ] Conexes Conexes > its like paying the mob protection money, a fee to not get attacked
[ 2012.07.20 02:19:14 ] Eisler Rollard > ahh another asshole move in eve. lovely.
[ 2012.07.20 02:19:22 ] Jahxsis > hehe nice story :) not often I see an organized racket in highsec
[ 2012.07.20 02:19:31 ] Mane Frehm > Meinerman - you are in a 7 member corp. I look forward to inspecting your mining fleet
[ 2012.07.20 02:19:43 ] Meinerman > thats ok because when i mine in a maelstrom his catalyst is worthless
[ 2012.07.20 02:20:04 ] Meinerman > i only know 7 whole people in my 4 years of playing
[ 2012.07.20 02:20:50 ] Meinerman > dude you ahve no idea
[ 2012.07.20 02:20:52 ] Mane Frehm > if you only know 7 people you are (wait for it).... doing it wrong
[ 2012.07.20 02:20:59 ] Eisler Rollard > Due to over-mining of the High Security systems of the Fittakan Constellation the orbits of the asteroids are starting to become unstable and rogue asteroids are drifting out from the belts and are becoming navigational hazards.
[ 2012.07.20 02:21:05 ] Meinerman > lol sarcasm dumb ass
[ 2012.07.20 02:21:05 ] Eisler Rollard > these guys r good at bullshit lol
[ 2012.07.20 02:21:41 ] Strhyke Cantaso > everybody and his brother has played that MININIG inspector angle to death......find a new song you silly bitches
[ 2012.07.20 02:22:01 ] Eisler Rollard > call them skinny bulls :D
[ 2012.07.20 02:22:08 ] Meinerman > not very popular are you ?
[ 2012.07.20 02:22:10 ] Mane Frehm > Oh Eisler - we're quite serious. Mining without a license in Molden Heath is just a bad idea
[ 2012.07.20 02:22:21 ] Eisler Rollard > yea yea can it for some1 who cares
[ 2012.07.20 02:22:27 ] Meinerman > it wont be when you start dying because you are pissing off people
[ 2012.07.20 02:22:30 ] Strhyke Cantaso > and learn to spell.......its veneer not verneer
[ 2012.07.20 02:24:35 ] Mane Frehm > Meinerman - pissing off people is the price one pays for being a mining inspector. Its really quite fulfilling
[ 2012.07.20 02:24:52 ] Meinerman > you are really quite dead
[ 2012.07.20 02:24:54 ] Mane Frehm > you really should get a license
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:03 ] Meinerman > you will lose a ship every time i see you in space
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:09 ] Septimys Wro > Wow. Don't mess with miners that keep a thesaurus handy.
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:10 ] Eisler Rollard > screw ur license crap.
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:20 ] Mane Frehm > Oh Meinerman - now you are just being silly.
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:44 ] CzarKiller > why dont u guys just play the game, u could kill him if u knew how.
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:49 ] Strhyke Cantaso > find some originality and read the taxman chronicles to learn how it is REALLY done by someone with real talent
[ 2012.07.20 02:25:58 ] askos > schizophrenic and compulsive obessive , favorite word seems to be license
[ 2012.07.20 02:26:00 ] CzarKiller > otherwise...well, oh well, man up.
[ 2012.07.20 02:26:33 ] Mane Frehm > Being a mining inspector is not for the faint of heart. So much hate....
[ 2012.07.20 02:27:37 ] Eisler Rollard > its lovely listening to this clown while i mine the day away XD
[ 2012.07.20 02:27:46 ] Strhyke Cantaso >
[ 2012.07.20 02:27:54 ] Strhyke Cantaso > read that and learn something fool
[ 2012.07.20 02:28:34 ] Strhyke Cantaso > adios pendejos
[ 2012.07.20 02:28:55 ] askos > sure thing conjo
[ 2012.07.20 02:29:26 ] Meinerman > who in here are miners?
[ 2012.07.20 02:29:38 ] Eisler Rollard > i mine on occasion.. as i am now XD
[ 2012.07.20 02:30:01 ] Meinerman > need protrection?


Now, here I will give Meinerman some clever points. If he has kill rights on Mane, he can sit in belts on top of miners and pop him every time he warps in if he has the ship for it. Also, people beg miners to get up and protect themselves. I give him props for going out and attempting to do something about the situation.

In the forum thread he posts that the loss of this ship was a killing blow to his corporation. I find that sad. For a corporation as much as for a player, don't fly or field what you can not lose.

No pictures this time. Just Eve Drama in its normal measures.

No comments:

Post a Comment