tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post5570839535137040135..comments2024-03-05T12:41:20.217-05:00Comments on Low Sec Lifestyle: So, Who is a solo player?Sugar Kylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-18449021225713829662014-06-11T11:34:16.192-04:002014-06-11T11:34:16.192-04:00Maybe we have a term issue here? (Or rather CCP)
...Maybe we have a term issue here? (Or rather CCP)<br /><br />I thik we only have solo playstyles, or solo activities, not solo players. But we also have social and anti social players that do these activities. And then we can say, that these solo activites can be done by a group of people too, so we have a bunch of players doing solo activities in a group.<br /><br />At least this makes more sense to me then what "solo player" suggests. Maybe the term "Loner" is a better suited word for what the "solo player" wants to achieve.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents.Gekszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336527739603496927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-33898832267757436452014-06-04T03:22:13.220-04:002014-06-04T03:22:13.220-04:00Maybe a solo player, is someone who does not fit i...Maybe a solo player, is someone who does not fit in the overall matrix.<br /><br />A non solo player could be defined as;<br /><br />- Someone who does ops<br />- Someone who is in a multiplayer corps<br />- Someone who participates in a corp with a larger in game goal (incursions and the like) <br />- Someone is participating in a corporation that has been instrumental in an area of the game (high sec / low sec / null sec)<br /><br />A solo player would then be the opposite, he would not join in any of the above points.<br /><br />*<br /><br />In game I consider myself a solo player, but I have some intel channels, some investors, some people I met, know, talk to in game. I have done ops in the past, but don't do them atm. I follow a lot of meta-gaming (blogs, forums, etc). And am still in game, even visited Fanfest.<br /><br />For me, EVE gets interesting because of social dynamics. I play the PVP trade game mostly. Without shipment companies in EVE, I could not do my work. Without the influence of blogs and forums, I could not speculate. So, I am not socially insulated, but I am not a non-solo player.<br /><br />When defining the term, this is what is in the way. Hildebrand en Lottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00871671417048090004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-36938442302526863562014-05-31T20:34:45.369-04:002014-05-31T20:34:45.369-04:00I don't like the world 'solo' ... I pr...I don't like the world 'solo' ... I prefer the term 'freelancer' to describe my game play. I have almost always been a freelancer, darting in and out of content as the whim strikes me. I do this with 2 accounts and I guess like Sugar, I tend to rely on only myself (when you are the only one involved, the only person you can be disappointed with is yourself... watching other people screw up your perfectly good scheme just causes friction). <br /><br />Yet I don't like the 'solo' word because I still have my stack of chat channels down there (/points/) where I keep track of the world. Like a trucker with a CB radio, I'm plugged into the scene, coordinating deals or gathering intel, reconnecting with a past corpie, or whatever. Listening. Watching. Helping. A part of the community.<br /><br />Said another way: Just because I'm not in a Fleet doesn't mean I'm playing solo.<br /><br />// AbavusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-37827748862871043752014-05-31T03:13:44.765-04:002014-05-31T03:13:44.765-04:00'social loner' actually quite nails it.
&...'social loner' actually quite nails it.<br /><br />"solo/social" is a mostly false dichotomy: You can operate solo while at the same time being social (via chat and comms) with other people. On the other end of the spectrum, you can act in a group while being anti-social (by limiting your communications to the minimum necessary to achieve the goal).Druur Monakhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07299435488090977357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-36465505048327060502014-05-30T17:21:46.181-04:002014-05-30T17:21:46.181-04:00To show just how bad it can be, my corp brought in...To show just how bad it can be, my corp brought in 6 newbies, all from other MMOs, and we lost all but 2, all because they really didn;t think EvE would be all that different from WoW or LoL or SWTOR :(Heretic Caldarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015635188565858672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-68032904364381121612014-05-30T16:30:28.971-04:002014-05-30T16:30:28.971-04:00...most new players are likely to be coming to EvE...<i>...most new players are likely to be coming to EvE assuming it's the same as any other MMO out there, with all the standard tropes and underlying structure (i.e. quest hubs, a storyline, the game telling players what to do next, no permanent loss, etc)...</i><br /><br />THIS. Our pool of potential new players are Themepark inculcated players. Players who have conscious and unconscious expectation that EVE simply does not cater to... or outright breaks.<br /><br />It's a hot sunny day, the pool looks inviting and all the signs all say "The water's fine, join us!" you jump in and it's FUKKIN COLD!!! I mean ICE WATER, MIND NUMBING COLD... how long are you staying in?<br /><br />EVE does that to Themepark players all the time.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-64390674951968378732014-05-30T16:14:08.780-04:002014-05-30T16:14:08.780-04:00Yea, but watch it again, the very beginning... CCP...Yea, but watch it again, the very beginning... CCP Rise was very surprised they even let him put on that presentation. If you really think on it, CCP has learned to be careful about sharing a lot of different kinds of hard data w/ the players...<br /><br />There are too many unforeseen cross connections and far too much unforeseen 'gaming' of data that has taken place in the past for them to be comfortable anymore with openly sharing data with us. Twice burned you know...<br /><br />And during these days of Dimsdalian cries that 'EVE is Dying' and suchlike tinhattery... any flatlining or potential actual drop in subs is not something I see then sharing. And due to the above mentioned "gaming" and "tinhattery" any data that could in any way shed light on actual subs numbers or trends I too, if I were them, would be very very cautious of sharing hard data with our bent, yet oft brilliant, playerbase.<br /><br />I am glad they were willing to share what they did... as general and non-specific as it was.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-34217867825220624452014-05-30T15:20:10.377-04:002014-05-30T15:20:10.377-04:00@Xaeroflex
Then, by your definition I am a solo pl...@Xaeroflex<br />Then, by your definition I am a solo player. I have only one account so I do not dual box or multitask w/ alts. Additionally I am logged into the Client and alone in the hole between 25 and 50% of my game time.<br /><br />I am in a primarily US West Coast TZ corp, only 3 of us are ECTZ and of them I usually log on earlier than the rest, 9PM my time. And yet usually one to 2 of our WC brethren are sorta semi-permanently on comms (they run the TS server) so whether in the client or not I am almost never really 'alone'... and if I call for help or find a good TOO (Target of Opportunity) they can often logon and join in.<br /><br />I am keep an eye on twitter and on The Line (chat app with rooms for corp, friends, etc.), I always have my Blog open and in the spare moments such as fleetups etc. am reading, commenting and/or writing up posts...<br /><br />Yet, as you see it I am a solo player? I beg to differ... And this is my point, you are not taking into account the social aspects of EVE. The socialization in EVE very often is not based in the client or in ingame activities. <a href="http://www.lowseclifestyle.com/2014/05/so-who-is-solo-player.html?showComment=1401391872104#c7538503793194871507" rel="nofollow">In this comment</a> I talked of a guy who has I believe something like 10 accounts and all he does is mine. He is not on comms, he uses chat almost exclusively as an early warning system, communicating pretty much only as absolutely needed for delivering & selling ores etc.<br /><br />To me, even though he is a nullsec guy, in a midsized null Industrial renter corp and a Massively Multi-boxing Mining MACHINE... his playstyle is both far more solo and more solitary than mine... Even though he is deep in null, surrounded by corpmates, other corps and Alliances, he quite effectively plays the game as though it was a single player game, treating everything that happens around him basically as if they were NPC activities and dealing only within himself as regards his gameplay.<br /><br />I, with my one account and playing in a very exclusive and, aside from corpmates, a basically player free area... play a very heavily involved and very social game... even though I fly 'solo' much of the time.<br /><br />Yet, we both have found more than enough to keep our interest, more than enough to keep us logging in and flying. In any definition of solo, solitary, small gang, large gang and massive gang...due to the nature of the game and meta-game, one must take into account the social aspects that take place outside of the client.<br /><br />It is not being forced into corps that is important... it is teaching the thousands of Themepark MMO players who are the pool of our potential new players, that <i>playing EVE is so very much more than just being logged into the client.</i> That it is NOT at all like your std run of the mill MMO... and how it is different.<br /><br />And, TBH, even that is still not for everybody...Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-68337732934982843442014-05-30T14:47:14.735-04:002014-05-30T14:47:14.735-04:00Yes, it's a terrible 'lack of data' pr...Yes, it's a terrible 'lack of data' presentation. How do they determine who is solo and who is group? Is it really players, or is it accounts? What are the respective time frames? And that 40% that doesn't group, it's implied but not stated that they also leave. Really? <br /><br />Gotta wonder if it's a case of assumptions interpreting the data instead of data defining the assumptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-2164243653076631262014-05-30T14:33:04.752-04:002014-05-30T14:33:04.752-04:00Yea pretty scary stuff right? I mean, especially i...Yea pretty scary stuff right? I mean, especially if the premise is right, what company IRL bets the house on 5 to 10% of it's poterntual customers??Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-3724355128927420562014-05-30T11:51:57.007-04:002014-05-30T11:51:57.007-04:00I think the biggest thing CCP needs to do to enhan...<br />I think the biggest thing CCP needs to do to enhance new player retention is to truly realize that most new players are likely to be coming to EvE assuming it's the same as any other MMO out there, with all the standard tropes and underlying structure (i.e. quest hubs, a storyline, the game telling players what to do next, no permanent loss, etc) and blatantly tell new players this during the NPE. And by that I don't mean the standard "EvE is a dark and dangerous place, blah blah" because EVERY MMO says that and EVERYONE knows those MMOs don't really mean it.<br /><br />To return to the original question of who is a solo player, I truly think that the vast majority of us are solo players (or at least we do a lot of solo activity). The nullsec PvPer who spends most of his time ratting to pay for PvP might consider himself a non-solo player, but is he really? It could be that the only truly non-solo players are those that don't plex and only log on when pinged for PvP. How man of those are out there?Heretic Caldarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015635188565858672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-66836764539797045342014-05-30T11:51:38.416-04:002014-05-30T11:51:38.416-04:00I tried EvE back in 2008 and didn't last even ...I tried EvE back in 2008 and didn't last even through the trial because the game was just too confusing. Now I'm a grognard that's been playing wargames for 30+ years, so I like it when my games let me know all the rules and mechanics. Even better if there are defined victory conditions, or at least a fairly good hinted-at path. EvE in 2008 was just too lacking in anything I considered to be adequate guidance for a new player, so I tried EvE Uni and that failed spectacularly (granted, they had very different rules and regs back then). So after only a week of flailing around, I said screw this and took my limited game time elsewhere.<br /><br />I returned to EvE 3 years ago, entirely and wholly because a group of friends from another game were making the jump to EvE. I'd always liked the idea of EvE, but I told myself never again unless I was with a group. So, yes, on one hand, I have to agree that CCP's data about those who group up stay and those who don't certainly has merit. But I have serious concerns about the types of group content they seem to be fixating on. The company originated in group PvP and they really only seem to hire players who also come from group PvP. I know lots and lots of players who don't like PvP, for a variety of reasons, and yet they still play EvE, still pay money to CCP, and still contribute to the game by the mere fact of playing.<br /><br />CCP doesn't seem to like those people, and I don't understand why.<br /><br />My wife has been playing as long as I have, and she's an unabashed highsec mining/missioning/light indy carebear. She has no desire to do anything else (though she has done/stil does the FW farming). She pays for both her accounts. The vast majority of her gaming is solo gaming, but she's fine with it. She's been ganked before and hasn't ragequit. I would say she definitely does not fall into the 5-10% block of EvE players the recent graph showed, and yet she'll probably be playing EvE long after I leave.<br /><br />I've taken long breaks twice, almost left the game for good once, and yet I would probably fit into the 5-10% - I've done the null sov bit, the null renter bit, the FW bit, highsec mission/incursion bit, and have gone to (and come back to) w-space. And yet it's a struggle for me to stay interested because, well, in EvE, to be a group player you have to (in most of the big movers and shakers groups) play the game they way they want you to.<br /><br />I doubt I'm alone.<br /><br />If CCP wants to keep me playing (and others like me), they need to focus on all the areas of their game, not just the sexy nullsec stuff. They also don't need to bring more forced grouping PVE into the game. Incursions, w-space, all provide enough group PVE play, IMO. I do wish they'd add/revamp some of the missions, though. Make them less static, so that players have to, gee, think and plan instead of looking up the mission on EvE Survival (heretical, I know). Give us new content, both in missions and other PVE (i.e. sleeper sites, complexes, etc). Bring back the humour the early missions used to have! (This is a thing; it does stuff, anyone remember that?)Heretic Caldarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015635188565858672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-24078251308491468192014-05-30T03:50:27.070-04:002014-05-30T03:50:27.070-04:00I hadn't watched the New Player Experience bef...I hadn't watched the New Player Experience before only heard about what was said second hand thanks for the link. I've watched it now and I'm scared, talk about making assumptions on no data. Some good ideas but the underlining premise....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-60669756601376296522014-05-30T02:44:29.118-04:002014-05-30T02:44:29.118-04:00There are considerably more "street signs&quo...There are considerably more "street signs" now than when I started, if the extra help and guidance was really a factor then player retention would be higher now than it was in 2006. I don't know if it is or if its not,but if player retention isn't higher then I don't think the theory stacks up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-5067847460400724162014-05-29T23:18:41.229-04:002014-05-29T23:18:41.229-04:00One thing a corp gives you is guidance. They help...One thing a corp gives you is guidance. They help you figure out what there is to know in the game. I hear many people around week three comment that they are utterly lost. <br /><br />For solo play we need more street signs to help people find their way.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-83648627205651694052014-05-29T22:38:48.012-04:002014-05-29T22:38:48.012-04:00Welp, time to toss in my 2 cents. I'm going f...Welp, time to toss in my 2 cents. I'm going first define a couple things. There is a difference between a solo player and a solitary player, and I believe there is/should be a distinction. A solitary player is one person, multiple accounts: ie an orca and several procurers or otherwise using alt accounts as an effort/force multiplier. Multiboxing level 5 missions would be a good example of this of using alt accounts to do things that would otherwise be tedious/uninteresting in an activity.<br /><br />A solo player would be one person, one account (active). A lone procurer mining away, the solo pvper (no links). Now they may have alt accounts but if only one is actually logged in, they're solo.<br /><br />Those definitions said for clarity, I'm inclined to think there's a significant chunk of Eve's population that are solitary, using Alts to execute mundane tasks that would otherwise be not done if it was the only account logged in, ie one account hauling things from Jita to wherethefuckever while other accounts are busy setting up S&I jobs, updating marketing orders, etc.<br /><br />As far as PvE goes, I feel there should be more diversity in options an with that should go a defined risk/reward. I've seen a few proposals that made me think "that looks mildly interesting" especially for co-op play, but quite frankly I have no hope ever seeing implemented. Take the ever present level 4 grind, I think the last new mission that was implemented was way back in 2011 (dread pirate Scarlett), would it have been too much to ask for some new missions along the established reward paradigm for current level 4s? Iirc CCP has stated the mission code is almost as annoying to work with as the POS code so seeing new missions just screams laziness. Mission system revamp? CCP has again hinted at doing it, but I've categorized that as something I'll believe it when I see it.<br /><br />Re: player retention, only CCP has access to that hard information so it's difficult to come to any conclusion thy can be supported by data. That said the information available is that the people who stay subbed tend to be people that get involved in groups and that's the only positive proof of what keeps players in the game, therefore it's the only direct goal that can be worked towards: ie how can new players have a positive experience with eve groups that would entice them to stay?Xaeroflexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05218476652847276691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-72523694720270255332014-05-29T22:11:46.600-04:002014-05-29T22:11:46.600-04:00Oh, I agree that the best thing about New Eden is ...Oh, I agree that the best thing about New Eden is the impermanence of materials and objects in the game. But it's one of our basic desires to own our experiences and display them. Hence achievements and titles in other games.<br /><br />And I also agree that PvE can be done a lot better, specifically with varying the activities a capsuleer does in the belt. But without a way to track and show off what they've done, you're not going to keep people doing it, no matter how fun/ISK rewarding it is.Tabletop Teacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16804201908210463999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-23850851261512446912014-05-29T19:14:45.786-04:002014-05-29T19:14:45.786-04:00[quote]became so unpopular that other people bande...[quote]became so unpopular that other people banded together. Good started fighting evil, and without true evil you can’t have true good.[/quote]<br /><br />But it is broken in Eve. Commonly -10 players can move with impunity through high-sec. As long as they can avoid the NPC police - the crime spree continues. Very few players can be bothered with villains - and thus remain fixated in solo modeEasy Eskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882509080454825895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-55545013666680871652014-05-29T19:08:08.174-04:002014-05-29T19:08:08.174-04:00[comment once again del'ed and edited and repo...<i>[comment once again del'ed and edited and reposted cause I can't spell...]</i><br />@Anon 3:04<br />It's not the community that thinks all players need to be in corps etc., its CCP, in the person of CCP Rise, that has said that they are concentrating on the 5 to 10% of players, the hard core players that join corps and get involved in ‘diverse & interesting’ gameplay... IE Group gameplay.<br /><br />Ref: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbHqFgn4SOw" rel="nofollow">[16:02 to 18:26] Fanfest 2014 – New Player Experience Vision</a><br />Watch it if you haven't... it’s an eye opener.<br /><br />Also... during the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkc0Y4RHVY" rel="nofollow">CSM Panel</a> at Fanfest there was a pretty direct question posed about the loss of subs... the answer was something along the lines of,<br /><br />"Where did you get your numbers from? According to CCP and what the CSM has seen, subs are fine."<br /><br />They talked about how while the PCU is down, subs, overall are not and that there are other factors that influence PCU that have nothing to do with subs.<br /><br />I don't have the times for that part of the Panel, but it's in there, listen for a question about the loss of subs.<br /><br />@Suzariel<br />I don't believe in a real sandbox you can tell the solo players from the group players... especially a sandbox with a huge meta-box side to it like EVE has...<br /><br />No, any definition of 'solo' in EVE will be arbitrary and will have many exceptions to the rule.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-73460141726130176102014-05-29T18:50:18.817-04:002014-05-29T18:50:18.817-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-34058528933087020372014-05-29T18:16:52.405-04:002014-05-29T18:16:52.405-04:00I agree, TurAmarth. They got the evil part set up,...I agree, TurAmarth. They got the evil part set up, but the good, not so much. I have hope that they're on a track toward improving it so people like me who don't do griefing will continue to have something to do in-game.<br /><br />I mostly do solo things in EVE, but if my friends are around, I'm social about it. If there's a fleet going and I have the time to join, sure, that's awesome. I also do a fair amount of social stuff out-of-client with private forums. And for the last month or so, several of us have been posting our our alliance blog.<br /><br />From some of the discussions I've seen, a few folks keep trying to pigeonhole "the solo player" as fitting a certain profile -- usually with a swipe about them being losers with no friends -- and I think oversimplifying it like that isn't a productive way to understand who plays EVE, how, and why.Suzariel Kel-Patenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09141394814063525048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-89867832021829040562014-05-29T18:04:17.933-04:002014-05-29T18:04:17.933-04:00I think there is some misunderstanding about the s...I think there is some misunderstanding about the statistics. It was my understanding that the people that left eve in big numbers were the ones who didn't interact with the wider Eve community, that is they didn't pvp, play the market, gank, do incursuions or generally do things that required other players. <br />A lot of the community seems to have decided that everything would be ok if these new players could just be made to join a corp but I don't think that's what the Stats show ( Unless someone may have numbers I haven't seen).<br />Remember Eve is a niche game it only applies to a certain type of person it's never going to have wide appeal.<br />In my own case I play solo I enjoy it, before I started eve in 2006 I'd been a GM in WOW (slightly embarrassing) and I've played many of the other "popular" MMO's some at the same time as eve. I think that what I'm trying to say is that Eve attract's a certain type of player often more cynical and more experienced dare I say older, the ones who stay probably already know what they want to get out of the game or how to discover it. The guys with the space cadet smiles will never stay we don't wan't to ruin our game by catering to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-73653319622157853012014-05-29T17:54:49.416-04:002014-05-29T17:54:49.416-04:00It also shouldn't feel like scraps from group ...It also shouldn't feel like scraps from group play left over for a solo dog to lick from the ground as not to starve.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-6162462389346402682014-05-29T17:51:04.067-04:002014-05-29T17:51:04.067-04:00To be fair I don't think they listened to tehi...To be fair I don't think they listened to tehir cries so much as noticed their wallet sales. :PSugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-35436260274234305482014-05-29T17:50:09.662-04:002014-05-29T17:50:09.662-04:00I often call residents of low sec social loaners. ...I often call residents of low sec social loaners. Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.com