tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post3174918623113176358..comments2024-03-05T12:41:20.217-05:00Comments on Low Sec Lifestyle: I Want to be NeutralSugar Kylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-85605554199960609942014-08-24T02:19:54.640-04:002014-08-24T02:19:54.640-04:00All mechanics would favor the villain because a tr...All mechanics would favor the villain because a true villain would also pretend to be a hero to correct or manipulate what they wanted to do and jump back and forth at need.<br /><br />And if you put in absolutes, ways that someone once they decide on a villains path could never reach redemption to save the hero their path, you've destroyed a chunk of the game in the process.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-386363290494949412014-08-24T02:17:49.338-04:002014-08-24T02:17:49.338-04:00Because people don't care. They don't have...Because people don't care. They don't have any desire to be good. This is a video game and there can only be so much punishment before the game part gets tossed out of the window for some type of moral teaching machine. The entire game is based around players enforcing anything and everything but the problem with being a hero is that you don't do bad things.<br /><br />That means you limit yourself a lot. It is a problem with being a hero. The tools given will only make things easier for the villain unless you put in hard coded counters. After that, you've destroyed the concept of social groups defining themselves and their behaviors and the game defines everything not the players.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-24787809613550674542014-08-24T02:15:00.447-04:002014-08-24T02:15:00.447-04:00I've actually been thinking about how I can ab...I've actually been thinking about how I can abuse the sec status mechanics listed. One has an alt with a -10 sec status and its like an instant sec gain button with less grinding and no ISK involved.<br /><br />"Exploit!" So have a greater GM load for all the people abusing it?<br /><br />And that's just the simpliest way of things.<br /><br />I don't think I'm missing the point. I'm sorry that I didn't answer it in the way you wanted it to be answered or focus on the points you wanted focused on, Tur.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-41674263140064565262014-08-23T22:10:27.822-04:002014-08-23T22:10:27.822-04:00You also missed the point, or more likely, you ar...You also missed the point, or more likely, you are semantically ducking it.<br /><br />A pickpocket is a much a criminal as a serial killer, the difference is not in 'kind' it's simply in magnitude. So yes, a petty thief (-5 player) is the same as Darth Vader (-10 player). Darth Vader just did WORSE crimes than the pickpocket is all... a criminal is a criminal, period.<br /><br />And all Sakaane wants is a balance to the game that gives as much benefit to playing the hero, IE fighting AGAINST players who prefer non-consensual PvP as it does currently for those who do.<br /><br />I myself have lived in Anoikis for basically 3.5 of my almost 4 years ingame... but Anoikis is, by it's very (coded) nature, very very different from ALL other space in EVE. High, Low and Null all have local and CONCORD (if you say Null doesn't then who pays the bounties on NPCs in Null hmmm?)...<br /><br />Anoikis (Negative Sec) has NO local, NO CONCORD presence at all and it has NO Stations, Outposts or Gates and nothing we do in Neg Sec affects our Sec Status... ever... So Anoikis is just simply very different and therefore played differently than Known Space.<br /><br />Sakaane and I have no problem doing the work needed to be the hero... We just want a balance in the game mechanics between hero and villain... and right now, the games mechanics favor the villain.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-61530816165748720282014-08-23T21:44:41.938-04:002014-08-23T21:44:41.938-04:00Kudos to Sakaane for the base idea and to Noob for...Kudos to Sakaane for the base idea and to Noob for seconding the motion...<br /><br />Sugar I think you missed the point. Yes Sakaane was talking about playing the 'hero', but the salient point you did not discuss was her idea on how to FIX the Security Status mechanic so that playing the hero would not involve harming ourselves in the process...<br /><br />As you said... <i>"The concept of hero is, honestly, somewhat broken and it is hard to apply it to the game because in the game we can be heroes quite easily. We just harm ourselves doing so. We restrict ourselves. We tend to place ourselves in a bad position because of it and I don't think that can every be fully 'fixed' because of the nature of giving and selflessness."</i><br /><br />Sakaane gave offers a definitive mechanic change that would allow players to act as the 'hero', and I do not mean as a role player, simply to give a rational and reasonable buff to intentionally PvPing AGAINST Low Security Status players. This is not role playing, this is just one 'beneficial' GOOD reason for PvP as compared to simply one more in a long list of 'beneficial' BAD reasons for PvP.<br /><br />Please see my post <a href="http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/08/crime-reward.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for my take on this.<br /><br />I feel, VERY strongly, that the CSM should discuss this and bring it to CCPs attention.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-26015863628008410522014-08-20T12:24:56.292-04:002014-08-20T12:24:56.292-04:00Solitary Pilot seems to be concerned about that fa...Solitary Pilot seems to be concerned about that fact that being a villain is easier. I dont think this is true at all. Being a petty thief or griefer is as easy as being a miner or highsec missioner. Ruining a miners evening by ganking him, is as easy as giving a new player a few million isk and teaching him something new for him to do. Eve university does this everyday. I do it every day at a smaller scale with my corporation. There is plenty of groups helping people in eve, all day everyday. But being good to someone means sharing something valueable for free. Sharing some of your knowledge, some of your time, some of your isk, some of your territory. And most people do not want to do this, if its for free.<br /><br />The problem here is that this person seems to think that being a petty thief is being a true "Villain" as the Emperor or Darth Vader is in starwars. But its not. Its just being a petty thief. Petty thieves are legion in eve, as are average scamer, average pirates, average gankers and whatnot. And as are average mission runner, average miner, average anomaly farmer, average industrialist. Neither of the groups are being heroes or villains.<br /><br />He also complains about adversity. Some of what he is talking about is clearly over the line (real life harrasment to gain an advantage over an ingame war), but most of it is just regular in game adversity. It is sometime hard to deal witht adversity, but there is a famous quote about the fact that there is no glory in winning without challenge. And what is a Hero if not a glorious good person? No difficulty, no adversity, no heroism.<br /><br />I dont claim to be a hero, but I fancy myself as a good person. With a friend I taught a group of new players what I knew about PvP, I took a lot of time and resources to teach them about how to fight, how to organize a fleet, how to probe, how to live in wormholes, how to make money there, etc. It took a huge amount of collective effort and good will for me and my group to progress, and it still does. I am not even a master in any thing I taught them. I just knew more, and I shared this knowledge for free. I have been paid back in respect and friendship, and with the ability to learn more with my group than I would be able to do alone. It would have been easier to join a big group and learn from them. It would have been better for my wealth if I would have keep doing incursions instead. But I would not have been specifically worthy of respect from anyone doing so.<br /><br />We are not Heroes, because we only want to make people in our group to progress, and Anoikis is a harsh place, where you shoot yourself a bullet in the foot if you dont assume by default that strangers are ennemies. Where we are now is not perfect, but it is rewarding to look back and see what we have achieved in 5 month, going from a little group of highsec miners and missioners to a slihtly bigger group of people that like each other, and progress both indivdually and as a group in terms of personal and characters skills, income and knowledge. Some individuals in my groups are definitely some kind of heroes for some other in the group. <br /><br />The point I want to make, is that joining or creating a community and becoming a hero in this community is definitly possible. The greater the scale, the more difficult it is. Chribba is some kind of Eve wide hero. And each and every subset of the eve community has its own heroes. There is definitely heroes in Eve, and it is definitely possible to become one. But you cannot ask to be a hero without working hard to deserve that title. And more than anything else, a hero never complains about the hardship that he had to overcome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-3620535919732626492014-08-20T11:45:15.887-04:002014-08-20T11:45:15.887-04:00Sugar, what do you think of the suggested change t...Sugar, what do you think of the suggested change to the sec' status mechanic? under the "Concord needs to Math" section?<br /><br />That the alteration in security status following a kill depends on the relative values of the winner and loser? <br /><br />Your sec' status goes up if you kill a player with lower sec' status and vice versa? <br /><br />Hunting criminals becomes a valid pursuit, drawing people into low sec to shoot things without fear of losing hi sec space access?<br /><br />(Disclaimer: At the moment my mains next plan involves having a low security status)<br /><br />Is it something you can put before the CSM and/or CCP and find out what they think? Cheradenine Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06822231437454134489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-15000059610405380292014-08-19T14:58:39.648-04:002014-08-19T14:58:39.648-04:00I do. After I kill them. I send them links to info...I do. After I kill them. I send them links to info about stuff like T20 and Somergate and more... what else should I say?<br /><br />It is not like any of us newer players will ever truly change anything...CCP has let this situation fester for more than 5 years. It is "working as intended".<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-24789787011588862412014-08-19T13:12:15.115-04:002014-08-19T13:12:15.115-04:00For every high experienced player that ganked you,...For every high experienced player that ganked you, there were hundreds more that didn't. Rather than gank those under two weeks old, why not talk to them instead?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-55468522818443256242014-08-19T02:17:00.129-04:002014-08-19T02:17:00.129-04:00It's too late, the "community" are f...It's too late, the "community" are forcing new players away and old players are leaving (e.g. Barakus recently).<br /><br />I think CCP are great but can't abide the community they've allowed to fester!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-70654119050947765322014-08-19T00:58:55.345-04:002014-08-19T00:58:55.345-04:00I joined this game as someone who wanted to build....I joined this game as someone who wanted to build. Explore. Do cool things like in the promo vids.<br />Got ganked. Read out-of-date guides and deliberate mis-information (part of the meta, I assume). Died some more.<br />Tried mining, industry, FW (d-plexing), exploration in Hi, Lo, and Nul. Had my own POS. Tried other stuff too. <br /><br />At every turn, after putting months into one project or another, someone with 3 or more times my time in game would crush me. Or a group would.<br /><br />Corporations were scammers, awoxers, or intoxicated frat-boys. Never have found a group that wasn't.<br /><br />So now I'm doing what CCP wants. I'm providing "content". I'm killing venture pilots near the rookie systems. I only attack those with less than 2 weeks in, usually less than 5 days.<br /><br />36 kills in the last two weeks. Not a lot by the standards of you "pro" players. But I'm doing what I can -- trying to convince people to _not_ invest time and money into this scam called EVE.<br /><br />I spent over a year learning how much of Eve is a lie, and a pyramid scheme. How much will be forever out of reach for a player starting now. Now I have a mission. Even if every kill makes me feel nauseous. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-32082050773625812082014-08-18T20:03:25.201-04:002014-08-18T20:03:25.201-04:00the base line is this; there is no penalty for Rec...the base line is this; there is no penalty for Recidivism. Concord and security loss have long since ceased to act an deterrent for criminal behaviour. The bounty system is again being gamed. <br /><br />I survive by being the needle in the haystack and a just another tree in the forest.<br /><br />I once did ECM cover for a mining fleet. Occasionally get to perma-jam some poor sap wannabe pirate. That might be someone's idea of a fun time or gudfight. It got old fast. Give me the damsel for the umpteenth time any-day. Easy Eskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882509080454825895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-87080148366157836352014-08-18T17:14:21.334-04:002014-08-18T17:14:21.334-04:00And that is an interesting point. Snuff jumped on ...And that is an interesting point. Snuff jumped on that Titan as they would any Titan. The kill was not heroic. Some might consider it the opposite because we killed it simply because we could.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-65141166789488131512014-08-18T14:40:59.970-04:002014-08-18T14:40:59.970-04:00There is another way to be a hero than giving to t...There is another way to be a hero than giving to the weak: do bad things to bad people! For example you were my hero for popping that Goon titan!Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-72364334580788124602014-08-18T14:06:04.239-04:002014-08-18T14:06:04.239-04:00"Eve is an enormous game with plenty of room ..."Eve is an enormous game with plenty of room for vastly, different styles of gameplay."<br /><br />I feel that as more and more accept that and stop dictating to other players how to play, the game will be far better for it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com