tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post2612270463830812732..comments2024-03-05T12:41:20.217-05:00Comments on Low Sec Lifestyle: Choice and ActionSugar Kylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-77210335763736887762013-06-30T11:35:06.516-04:002013-06-30T11:35:06.516-04:00You're right in that some things don't com...You're right in that some things don't compare. In real life, most of the players of Eve wouldn't be wandering around waiting to jump random people and kill them for no reason. Yet here, its acceptable. You justify that choice by saying the consequences aren't the same as real life. Maybe not. But you allow the ganker to do what he wants, even if its not what he would do in real life. Why then do you expect hi-sec players to do what they don't want? If a player in hi-sec doesn't enjoy PvP, and wants the game to represent the criminal actions of pirates in a more realistic fashion, their "choice" looks less like a choice. Instead, it looks like you telling them they've chosen inaction rather than act against how they wish to play.<br /><br />The hi-seccer says to CCP, "If this were real, pirates wouldn't be allowed to jump, or dock. Explicitly allowing them that freedom to play as they wish implicitly condones their actions at the expense of players who think criminal actions should carry stiffer consequences than the ability to conduct vigilante justice."<br /><br />You argument seems to be that the game allows player criminal actions as well as player-administered "justice". If you don't like my previous analogy, how about this one?<br /><br />Suppose a player said, "I wish I had more encounters in space." Your response is, "You have a spaceship. Other players have a spaceship. If you choose not to encounter them, then you should accept responsibility for that choice." CCP's response was, "Here are some NPC's, exploration sites, etc."<br /><br />Now the hi-sec player says, "I wish I had better security in high-security space." Your response is, "You have a ship, guns, bounties, and flashing red security status to shoot at. If you choose not to enforce the security you want, then you should accept responsibility for that choice."<br /><br />It is not a choice to ignore the tools if you are asking for a different toolset.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-43647737711968366192013-06-29T22:56:00.384-04:002013-06-29T22:56:00.384-04:00As much time as I spend comparing people's hab...As much time as I spend comparing people's habits and behaviors in game and IRL and in their social and habitual norm I would never compare people's behavior in PvP to an action that they do IRL. The two do not compare. One is a video game and the other is your actual life. One you get back. The other you do not.<br /><br />They are not on the same level. At all and I will not touch that entire part of your response.<br /><br />After that:<br /><br />If you say that it is not your job in Eve to do anything about people you have made your choice. I did not say that anyone was lazy. I said that they wanted the game mechanics to take care of the situation for them. If I had wanted to speak of or point out laziness I would have used laziness.<br /><br />Instead, I used choice.<br /><br />It is your choice when you have the tools to do the job not to do the job. As long as you know that you made that choice and acknowledge that it is a choice you have made, your decision is your own and you are answerable to yourself.<br /><br />But at the same time, when you are tired of a situation and want it to change, it is also your choice to ignore the tools that the game has given you to change the situation.Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-41746906668070985902013-06-29T22:23:52.511-04:002013-06-29T22:23:52.511-04:00Suppose you live in a nice suburban neighborhood. ...Suppose you live in a nice suburban neighborhood. You decide to go down to the corner to get a coke. There's a 7-11, a Subway, a grocery store and a police substation. You pull into the parking lot of 7-11, and walking through it is a gang member carrying an assault rifle. The other people in the parking lot are driving SUV's or small hybrid sedans, just looking for a drink or a pack of smokes, maybe taking their kids to soccer.<br /><br />This gang member walks by, and you can tell he's got blood on his clothes and he's carrying the gun like he wants to use it. You look over to the police substation and see nothing. You watch the gang member walk into 7-11, buy a beer, and leave, still holding the assault rifle as if daring people to do anything. Still no police, and the business just let him in and out.<br /><br />The people in the parking lot cry out, "Why was this allowed to happen? Why didn't the police or the business do something to stop him?"<br /><br />Your response is, "You have the tools to stop him, why didn't you do it?"<br /><br />The answer is not because we are lazy, but because that's not our job. Even if I carry a gun myself, its not my job to stop them. The reason we have police is because it is their job.<br /><br />If high-sec residents ask why nothing is done about low-sec people coming and going with impunity, the reason is not because we are lazy or whiny. Its because "high-security" is supposed to mean something, and we are wondering why we don't get it. What's the point of having the police substation next to the 7-11 if the police don't stop the gang member waving around an assault rifle?<br /><br />The low-sec player who comes to hi-sec feels free to engage anyone at any time. That flashing red is a banner of pride for them, and most people who see it are not equipped at that time to handle it. Rather than expecting CONCORD to do their job, you're saying we should ship up and go for vigilante justice. For us law-abiding citizens who aren't interested in going out of our way to do CONCORD's job for them, why would you ask us to?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-35074004270395624442013-06-28T03:46:41.197-04:002013-06-28T03:46:41.197-04:00I think many people have a hard time separating &q...I think many people have a hard time separating "bad" behavior ingame from "bad people" meaning for lots of the more outspoken "pro-highsec" players being an outlaw and being a bad person are interchangeable. That in turn leads to thinking about outlaws consequences not in terms of game mechanics but in term of crime and punishment; people who fail to make the first differentiation don't tend to have subtle views about crime and punishment. So in the end it defaults to a very human "bad people need to be punished harshly but I don't want to be the executioner myself" and the bad fairy has to dance in glowing red shoes, the wolf gets thrown into the well, the witch burned in the oven ... <br />This is what feels right.Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18182388731594509040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-87322049682581388352013-06-26T18:01:27.498-04:002013-06-26T18:01:27.498-04:00>"Why don't the NPCs kill them so that...>"Why don't the NPCs kill them so that I do not have to..." <br /><br />I'm reminded of those scenes in The Jetsons where all George Jetson does at work is press a button. There's only 1 button, and I think he only has to press it once per day (and he works 9 hours per week). But he still complains about slaving over a hot button all day long. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhF4gu87rn0 (notice how he repackages his ship before going into the office)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-62478756393319662602013-06-26T16:47:35.814-04:002013-06-26T16:47:35.814-04:00I have to second the 'pods are not empty' ...I have to second the 'pods are not empty' sentiment. I did some HS exploration on an alt and saw a flashy pod drifting past me on autopilot*. I thought a good long while if I should pod him and figured that if he got kill right on me, maybe i'll get some pew in HS and he might have something shiny in there. So he got the Pod Express, I got a shiny pod mail and he lost 600mil in implants. <br /><br />* I can't understand why you would go afk while in a pod in space and even less so if you are flashy. Maybe he learned his lesson.Zzzzleepyheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05580257327756562799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-55321694798311207012013-06-26T09:44:45.789-04:002013-06-26T09:44:45.789-04:00"...[for] what part of their choice not to do..."...[for]<i> what part of their choice not to do anything about their problem situation are they accountable?"</i><br /><br />In EVE Online, they are accountable for all of that choice, just as you are accountable, as you have laid out, for yours. How? by you both paying the price of your choices... in their case, losses due to 'not' proactively doing anything about it except whining and moaning.<br /><br />It's simple really, they perceive 'doing something about it' as a 'waste of their gametime.' They should be free to totally focus their time on what they like to do (and I will qualify that by saying, on THAT toon). IE Exploration, Ratting, Mining, Missions, Industry, etc., etc... IE PvE, or at least non-PvP gameplay.<br /><br />IMHO it is the 'totally focused game time' part that is the key here. And while yes, they do take the 'time' to piss and moan in local, chats and forums etc. to beg for others (preferably game code restrictions or NPC mechanics) to 'deal' (IE waste their time) with all of us who's gameplay includes 'initiating' non-consensual PvP against them, they are not willing to change their playstyle to 'do' anything about it. Like the miner who will never ever 'tank' his Retriever or Hulk because it reduces his max yield, and for him, max yield is EVErything.<br /><br />TL;DR, they are, in a way, lazy. They want to partake of and enjoy the complexity of EvE's Industry and Markets without the player interaction that supports those very same game mechanics being used against themselves.<br /><br />What I don't get is, if EvE was coded without ANY non-consensual PvP, how much Industry and how much of a Market do they think they would have left? They are caught sharp inna Catch 22 and they don't like it nary a bit...<br /><br />Too bad. It's EvE, HTFU or GTFO I say.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-76841537159959524582013-06-26T06:41:05.852-04:002013-06-26T06:41:05.852-04:00But a lot of pods are not empty. A lot of people w...But a lot of pods are not empty. A lot of people would be inconvenienced. If it is always said that it does nothing how will we know whatnot does do?Sugar Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15437978687639772023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-238324579504790.post-29163044537853819192013-06-26T06:38:24.065-04:002013-06-26T06:38:24.065-04:00The main barrier of "anti-pirate" activi...The main barrier of "anti-pirate" activity is the very low reward. A 10M catalyst that drops like 1M loot. An empty pod. Pitiful bounty. A killmail that no one respects a it's not "elite PvP". But above all: a very small inconvenience to the target. You did not "punish the bad pirate", you just took away a few minutes of his gaming life and he has plenty, or he wouldn't spend it on random PvP.<br /><br />Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com