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Ranting: Tie your hands, for honor!

[TL;DR: Snarl, snarl, snarl.]

This is a game where a lot of people are trying to win against other people while embarked upon separate objectives. The analysis into what is and what is not will always be marred by the subtle textures of individuality that seeps in between things. Mix that with what seems to be an automatic avoidance of harsh honesty for the muddied waters of explanation and sometimes I am very, very frustrated with the eyes wide shut views vomited forth about this game.

I've been stewing over a comment made. "They don't want to fight you because you all use falcons." The general reaction was, "What?" when that was said. Trace back to a fight or two, months and months ago, when someone did, indeed undock a falcon. Does that taint someone? If a fleet has another objective and you are in their path and die as they plow through you is the solution for the FC to cry:
 "Logistics support! Falcons! Bear thee away down yon jumpgate and through it for only the honor of men shall stand upon the shores of this fleet this day! I cry unto you DPS ships, for glory and honor tank only! Forthwith into battle of divine intent and style. Not for reasons of sensibility or intelligence shall we stop and ponder the shores of pewpew! For glory and victory shall be the burden of men and sensibility the tools of the weak. Those pilots who wallow in dishonorability by flying things others don't want to fight are cast aside this moment as we shall plunge our brawling fleet into their kiting setup knowing that the glory of honorable battle defines not the smart and quick of wit but the stupidly brave. Let us handicap ourselves and hobble all actions upon the viewpoint of those who wish to kill us and find frustration that this fleet comp does not wither under their baleful glare. The burning smack of local will ignite the fires of our victory  Only glory shall await us as we burn in a fire. For I say to you, who wanted to succeed in that fight anyway?"


Seeing someone recently comment on a forum that 7-2 will only fight with an overwhelming advantage, I, as a member, roll my eyes and toss my hair in irritation. How dare our corporation fly together in an effective manner when we advertise ourselves as gang PvP!

There are two sides to a story and both sides are heavily tinted by the individual opinion. I know that we will fight outnumbered but I can understand that people who only fight us when we outnumber them, equal them, or bring a superior force due to fleet doctrine can feel that way.  I point out the same when someone always flies with logistics or falcon with positive security status and engages us upon a gate. "They always fly with logi/falcon" or "They never aggress first because they want us to take gateguns."

Strategy matters. Going full zerg lemming style into battle does work but even that work is limited. How many people farm Brave Newbies for the fact that they can go to their system and pick off dozens of ships in an uncoordinated blob. I don't actually understand the enjoyment a highly skilled and trained pilot gets doing this but I understand that they find satisfaction in it. What they are doing, however, is applying strategy. They are not diving face first into the zerlging lemming blob to die in the inevitable fire that exists in the heart of that swarm. Instead, they are using the situation to push themselves while mitigating what happens. I call it making a proper, strategic decision. Other people call it [expective] kiting for [sexual slur descriptor].

I do not like Falcons because I do not like ECM jamming as a mechanic. However, I carry EC-300s in about 2/3 of my ships with a drone bay. I do it without shame. I understand why people bring Falcons to fights. I am frustrated by them. I do everything I can to push them off the field. But, I absolutely understand why the Falcon is there. It isn't about 'fair' fights and 'equal' fights and 'good' fights it about strategy and achieving strategic goals.

That is not the same as looking for a fight.

It may be the time I've spent recently trying to understand station games and up shipping. When they happen and the fleet disengaged and the growling about it starts I wonder what goes through the 'defending' sides mind. They sat on their station and did their best to pick a few people off. They put themselves in as unkillable a position as they could. They are not looking for a good fight where both sides are forced to battle against each other. That isn't the goal.

"W'ere not going to fight that."  I think the real answer, even if unspoken is, "Good," not "Why won't you sucide your fleet into ours? We cannot hold enough sense to understand." It is rather valid tactic to get people to leave you alone.

"No one is going to fight that fleet," I often hear as a ball of T3 and logistics rolls by. I can only think that they are not out for the fight we are.  And selective memory. How easy it is to forget what one wishes to forget. If it happened once the other twenty eight times it didn't or another fleet comp was flown goes out the window because this one time in a spaceship...

Blops, Hot Drops, bait, wormhole hiding, traps, and trickery are all part of the game. None of the exist in a void of their own. I've gleefully shredded hot dropped fleets before. It is not an automatic IWIN button. I have learned how to get Falcons off the field or at least distract them so that they have no choice but to focus on me or die because they did not leave. That is what I thought was part of playing this game. Going out and trying to do well, every time, in every way. How dare I have fun trying to win in PvP fights.

Everyone's ideal game world is different. I will never do the right thing for everyone. From the people who find my Jaguar to be to expensive to those that whine if I'm in anything larger nothing will ever be right. I'll always be wrong. I bought a Jaguar to a frigate fight. How dare I fly a Sleipnir. The dishonor of having EC-300 drones. How dare I. How dare we. Why won't we just lay down and die to their fleets every single time?

And not doing the exact same thing and fleet comp every time. Its sinful.  At least since we're going to hell we're doing it in style.

Roll my fucking eyes.

Comments

  1. I don't think I've had a kill in Eve that someone else wouldn't call illegitimate. The general vibe I see is "if I win then it was epic victory against impossible odds. If you win you must have cheated/ganked/haxored."

    Me and a couple of mates took down a geddon in assault firgs (jaguar holla) along with his logi. Then the pilot is smack talking in local saying we must be devs! Apparently speed and sig tanking is a dev hack now.

    Nothing wrong with using ecm and logi. Use all the tools the game gives you to win. If people want "fair" or "good" fights then put together a team and sign up for tournaments.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Give me a mallus or a damptar and I care not about falcons, its way more easy to make excuses then just counter a fleet for most people it seems. Now if they were using scorps I might worry

    ReplyDelete
  3. It all goes down to the unquestionable fact that no one ever, in the history of internet gaming has lost a fair fight. Everyone who lost an engagement in any video game was:
    - blobbed
    - outgunned
    - had lag
    - was distracted by cat/wife/fire

    Any fleet size and comp that give you any chance of victory is BY DEFINITION blobbing or outgunning them. I mean if you won, that's the proof that you blobbed/outshipped them. After all, in a fair fight they would have won, as they haz skillz and everyone else are just noobs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've lost fights fair and square this very morning; http://seventwo.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20431596

      Lost because he plain beat me. Gave him a 'gf' in local and everything. Has happened many times before will happen many times in the future.
      Just because something never happened to you, doesn't mean it never happens at all.

      Delete
    2. Don't bother, Kaeda. Nothing you say will change Gevlon's cynicism.

      Delete
  4. Most of my time in Eve is spent roaming solo. I enjoy shooting stuff. I enjoy making stuff explode. I also don't enjoy exploding myself. When I undock in an arty cane and see a pod sitting off station, I'll blap it if I can. It's what I enjoy. It's my objective. What I enjoy more though is taking a stabber or caracal out solo against a group of frigs and cruisers and coming out on top. It's more fulfilling because it's a challenge for me. If I win a fight due to skillfull piloting and making correct decisions when on paper I would lose that same fight, that's what I look for every time I undock.

    Sure I'm annoyed when the other guy warps in a falcon, decloaks a pilgrim, or calls in 20 of his closest friends from a jump over to make me explode. But their goal is different than mine. Their goal is to blow me up at all costs. My goal is to win against the odds. In fact, I should be grateful that they're offering just the scenario I seek.

    The disconnect comes when someone believes their personal objective to be to prove their skill in combat when in fact what they want most is simply to blow the other guy up. Space bushido is complicated.

    ReplyDelete
  5. The way I see it, a lot of this comes from mismatched desires and expectations and the fact that people tend to get pissy when others don't engage them on their terms or give them the kinds of fights they want.

    Group A sees a "reasonable fight". Group B sees a pack of nanoships that are going to zap light tackle before running away.
    ----
    Group A sees it taking reasonable precautions to mitigate their numerical disadvantage. Group B sees a nigh-unbreakable heavy armor phalanx shuffling around passively expecting disorganized idiots to leeroy into them.
    ----
    Group A thinks every one is afraid to fight them. Group B feels they're at an insurmountable numerical disadvantage and prefer frigate gangs to cruiser brawls anyway.
    ----------------------------
    If you can't get people to fight you on your terms, make them fight you on your terms. If you can't make them fight you on your terms, you need to offer them fights they want. If you won't offer them fights they want, pick a fight with someone else and try it all again.

    People complain that nobody will fight them, and they do this without a trace of irony or self-awareness.

    ReplyDelete

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