- open dislike and disrespect or derision often mixed with indignation
- an expression of contempt or derision
- an object of extreme disdain, contempt, or derision : something contemptible
There is a lot of scorn in Eve. It is multilayered with dozens of textures. It exists all over the world of PvP and enough of it is hypocritical to boot that it makes me shake my head.
I don't speak of smack talk. I understand the banter of sides against each other and the desire to rile people up. I see enough people lose their cool over it. I've done so myself. Not insomuch PvP situations but more in deciding to no longer speak with some who cannot communicate without cupping their hands to share a bit of scorn-filled derision. And quite often, it is directed at someone who is doing something in a way that they do not agree with.
"Doing it wrong."
In a game with so many ways to do things it is fascinating how many people are angered over people achieving a successful result in a different way. I see this most often in arguments about solo PvP vs Gangs vs Blobs. Another area is the use of ECM or the assistance of logistics. I fully understand how someone may wish to challenge themselves and finds frustration when they are met with unconquerable situations. After all, we do want our way. Even if that way is a battle that is lost but the fight during the battle is full of challenge and exhilaration.
And so scorn. Scorn over gangs, blobs, ecm, frigates, nano, bubbles, cloaks, blops, hotdrops, the list goes on and on and on. Everyone will hate someone else's tactic at some point, especially when that tactic is directed at them. However, what amuses me yet makes me shake my head is the hypocritical attitude of those who find their own situation turned back upon them.
The solo pilot with the 1-3 link alts following that rages about a two man gang or another solo pilot with a link alt.
The pilot with the falcon and logistic backup angered when his quarry up-ships and out ships him.
Such as the other day. I ran around a bit, actually undocking. Naoru called that he had aggression at the station with people who play station games. One was known, a 'solo' pilot who runs with two link alts. I don't mind people having link alts. I mind them declaring themselves engaging in solo PvP. But, mayhap they define solo PvP is defined by being the only DPS ship on the field and I should silence myself.
Link alts are a touchy subject. They can magnify a ships ability when used properly. I watch people bait others out and activate their links using gate and station guns to their advantage while what seems to be a fairly even fight goes rapidly downhill for the unlinked subject. I have no problem with how they choose to play. I just choose to not engage them if I can. But one tires of station games and baiters who proudly declare their prowess and one decides to take care of the situation. And sometimes one choose to engage in an activity not because one loves the activity or wishes to do it but because one wishes to support those that matter to them.
And so, after they die, the rage is fascinating. "A carrier?" they say over and over again because yes, we undocked a carrier to drop reps at some point during the six minutes that it took us to chew through his linked, brick tanked armor ship as we took gateguns and dealt with third parties that were not willing to come off the station but were willing to slip themselves onto any potential kill mails. Yet, there was so much rage when the plan to not die did not work out. Anger that the other parties were not dead and the scorn focused on the carrier.
One force multiplier is okay but another is not. I doubt any logistic ship would have been acceptable in that situation. But I find it funny how it being a carrier makes it worse. I've heard that before, "if the carrier wasn't there." Oh? Why? The same sadness is not there for the links or is it for the links? Is nothing ever allowed or it is only allowed in particular quantities by one person. May I use ECM Drones but not Falcon or are they both always bad unless they are being used against me because then it is fair?
Honor. Dishonor. Cowardice. Judgement. So many words, each dipped in scorn. Always applied to another that has a different tactic. Often times the tactic is not respected. I'm no font of angelic innocence. My disgust of station games is my worst sin. It is a viable tactic with its own counters and offenses, yet I loathe it and celebrate deeply when someone who indulges in it fails. I find myself irritated when it is directed at those I fly with for having different tactics with another and the automatic desire to denounce their methods instead whispers across my thoughts.
I've watched another group rage at members of Team Liquid for their use of nano, damage projection, speed, and kiting to tear apart forces many times their own size. There is so much scornful anger littered with slurs over it. Brawling is fine but kiting is terrible because, why? One does not win? One cannot control the urge to chase and follow the lure or because one is not given what they want?
If one brings a frigate and another ship is undocked, one that will instantly consume a frigate, the other pilot is tiresome because they did not bring a frigate to the fight? A fight is a battle between forces. No one said that anyone has to downship for said fight to happen. One can deny the fight by removing oneself from the situation in the same way that one denies the blob. But to be scornful of them not entering the situation on terms set by another, much less terms that will decrease their position is an endless cycle in Eve's cold, comments.
Do what I want, not what I do. Do what I want, even as I do. Play your own game... my way. I'm amazed that people get along as well as they do sometimes. But it is why we form groups and make friends or make enemies, be it as it may.
There probably is real sense to it. No deeper rhyme and rhythm other than the desire to win. I ask questions and seek understanding where the chances are high, there are no answers or discoveries to be had. I ponder what is often nothing more than moments of emotion and spite glazed over opinion.
I don't speak of smack talk. I understand the banter of sides against each other and the desire to rile people up. I see enough people lose their cool over it. I've done so myself. Not insomuch PvP situations but more in deciding to no longer speak with some who cannot communicate without cupping their hands to share a bit of scorn-filled derision. And quite often, it is directed at someone who is doing something in a way that they do not agree with.
"Doing it wrong."
In a game with so many ways to do things it is fascinating how many people are angered over people achieving a successful result in a different way. I see this most often in arguments about solo PvP vs Gangs vs Blobs. Another area is the use of ECM or the assistance of logistics. I fully understand how someone may wish to challenge themselves and finds frustration when they are met with unconquerable situations. After all, we do want our way. Even if that way is a battle that is lost but the fight during the battle is full of challenge and exhilaration.
And so scorn. Scorn over gangs, blobs, ecm, frigates, nano, bubbles, cloaks, blops, hotdrops, the list goes on and on and on. Everyone will hate someone else's tactic at some point, especially when that tactic is directed at them. However, what amuses me yet makes me shake my head is the hypocritical attitude of those who find their own situation turned back upon them.
The solo pilot with the 1-3 link alts following that rages about a two man gang or another solo pilot with a link alt.
The pilot with the falcon and logistic backup angered when his quarry up-ships and out ships him.
Such as the other day. I ran around a bit, actually undocking. Naoru called that he had aggression at the station with people who play station games. One was known, a 'solo' pilot who runs with two link alts. I don't mind people having link alts. I mind them declaring themselves engaging in solo PvP. But, mayhap they define solo PvP is defined by being the only DPS ship on the field and I should silence myself.
Link alts are a touchy subject. They can magnify a ships ability when used properly. I watch people bait others out and activate their links using gate and station guns to their advantage while what seems to be a fairly even fight goes rapidly downhill for the unlinked subject. I have no problem with how they choose to play. I just choose to not engage them if I can. But one tires of station games and baiters who proudly declare their prowess and one decides to take care of the situation. And sometimes one choose to engage in an activity not because one loves the activity or wishes to do it but because one wishes to support those that matter to them.
And so, after they die, the rage is fascinating. "A carrier?" they say over and over again because yes, we undocked a carrier to drop reps at some point during the six minutes that it took us to chew through his linked, brick tanked armor ship as we took gateguns and dealt with third parties that were not willing to come off the station but were willing to slip themselves onto any potential kill mails. Yet, there was so much rage when the plan to not die did not work out. Anger that the other parties were not dead and the scorn focused on the carrier.
One force multiplier is okay but another is not. I doubt any logistic ship would have been acceptable in that situation. But I find it funny how it being a carrier makes it worse. I've heard that before, "if the carrier wasn't there." Oh? Why? The same sadness is not there for the links or is it for the links? Is nothing ever allowed or it is only allowed in particular quantities by one person. May I use ECM Drones but not Falcon or are they both always bad unless they are being used against me because then it is fair?
Honor. Dishonor. Cowardice. Judgement. So many words, each dipped in scorn. Always applied to another that has a different tactic. Often times the tactic is not respected. I'm no font of angelic innocence. My disgust of station games is my worst sin. It is a viable tactic with its own counters and offenses, yet I loathe it and celebrate deeply when someone who indulges in it fails. I find myself irritated when it is directed at those I fly with for having different tactics with another and the automatic desire to denounce their methods instead whispers across my thoughts.
I've watched another group rage at members of Team Liquid for their use of nano, damage projection, speed, and kiting to tear apart forces many times their own size. There is so much scornful anger littered with slurs over it. Brawling is fine but kiting is terrible because, why? One does not win? One cannot control the urge to chase and follow the lure or because one is not given what they want?
If one brings a frigate and another ship is undocked, one that will instantly consume a frigate, the other pilot is tiresome because they did not bring a frigate to the fight? A fight is a battle between forces. No one said that anyone has to downship for said fight to happen. One can deny the fight by removing oneself from the situation in the same way that one denies the blob. But to be scornful of them not entering the situation on terms set by another, much less terms that will decrease their position is an endless cycle in Eve's cold, comments.
Do what I want, not what I do. Do what I want, even as I do. Play your own game... my way. I'm amazed that people get along as well as they do sometimes. But it is why we form groups and make friends or make enemies, be it as it may.
There probably is real sense to it. No deeper rhyme and rhythm other than the desire to win. I ask questions and seek understanding where the chances are high, there are no answers or discoveries to be had. I ponder what is often nothing more than moments of emotion and spite glazed over opinion.
Well said.
ReplyDeleteSly
I would define solo play as being one person even if he has 2 carriers, a falcon, 2 links ships and two dps ships on field.
ReplyDeleteThat guy is still a solo player. No interaction with friendlies or allies is involved, he has to perform all actions.
Just avoid any use of subjective words like fairness/honor
Ah, semantics, how I missed you!
DeleteI'd agree that such a guy is a solo player (and a quite capable one, juggling 7 clients at once); but I wouldn't call him a solo pvper. The latter for me implies one ship, and one ship only.
But that's just me.
Excellent post and a topic I have struggled with many times over the years as well. I agree with everything you ponder and face the same challenges myself in-game, but I did want to add something to the debate. Scorn, while a direct result of failure, can also be a tactic. For example, the general hatred of "falcon" may indeed keep some from bringing a "falcon" onto the field. If scorn over "falcon" wasn't there, we may see more of them. So, in some ways, scorn is a useful tool when used to try and mitigate your enemies tactics.
ReplyDeleteGranted, I realize very few people actually use it this way. Most of the scorn and hatred I experience comes from people losing. The enemies tactics are generally bad form when you lose as a result of them.
Several years ago Jim Carey explained this as "you attacked me wrong."
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE
I've never engaged in PvP where someone some place didn't say "that's not PvP because of X." Player ships still blew up, but it wasn't legit PvP; whatever. My philosophy for any sort of open world fight is always cheat, always fight to win.
Their thought process:
ReplyDelete1: I win because I'm awesome
2: If I don't win, you've cheated/were unhonorable so it doesn't matter so I'm still awesome
3: EVERYONE CALL ME AWESOME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I live in rancer where blobs come in gangs of 10 or 100 plus and yet we get called blobbers because we sploded some clueless fool with our camp who came through the system in his "shiney"(tbh a n00b ship will be just as tasty as anything else). Or we get baited by *l33t* pvpers and get hot dropped and get called noobs and scrubs because we dont pvp like they do.
ReplyDeletePvp style/type is always debatable depending on who died and how. Idgaf. I'll kill a n00b ship or a bs or a hauler or a pod, that is the beauty of EVE. Some people smack talk in local and it is obvious their hands are typing away without a brain connected to them. Block is a nice feature and being a slippery -10 sec status individual brings alot of fail smack or tears. I love it. People forget that pvp usually ends in a wreck, it does not matter how.
I think one thing that adds to the scorn is ccp's failure to include supporting ships on killmails. Nothing pisses me off more than seeing "solo kill" when the other guy was getting reps and boosts from other ships.
ReplyDelete